"This is an Exclusive" Ben 'the Bane' Davis.

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to the Against Defense podcast with your host, Breezy. I wanted to do the intro to this slightly different this time because we've got you as a guest, and with your experience commentating and, and being around the fight scene for such a while, I wanted you to kind of introduce yourself, but in a way as if you're walking. You're walking out. How would you introduce yourself? [00:00:23] Speaker B: Sure. Sure. I'll do a. I'll do a. Ben the Bain Davis ringwalk. All right. At just 24 years young, representing Phoenix, Arizona, Ben the Bain Davis has conquered nearly every combat sports discipline in his young career, simultaneously balancing a burgeoning play by play journey alongside a combat sports attempt is. This kid's been everywhere. He's checked every box. Fighting Anderson Silva's son, grappling the president of CFFC on five days notice, and taking out an Oompa Loompa in karate combat. Now ben the Bain Davis turns his sights on Conor McGregor's media reporter October 12 BKFC. [00:01:07] Speaker A: We'll see what this phoenician has that is unbelievable. How do you do that? Like, just. Just straight off the top of the dome? Just kind of. Is it is experience? Is it, like, where's it come from? [00:01:21] Speaker B: I feel like I definitely have to attribute it to reps and time in the booth doing those sorts of walkouts. I used to script them, and for my mixed martial arts shows, I still will have some loose notes because that's a very important time for me. I think people don't understand my perspective on broadcasting. It's an art form. I look at it as a purely technical endeavor in which eight, six, however many hours the broadcast is, every word of is going to be criticized. Every word will be absorbed by however many people that are listening. So you got to make every word count. And on those walkouts, it's the first introduction to a fighter, right. That the audience is receiving. And so I really want to stick the landing on those moments and therefore would script it. But for some of these misfits shows, when, you know, our tale of the tape is displaying their Instagram followings, and it kind of is a little bit, you know, I mean, it's less serious than a traditional combat sports show, I would say, in some regards. So I've stopped scripting them. And for the misfits ones specifically, there is just so much off the dome improvisational ability that thankfully, I've had. You know, I was on an improv troupe for years growing up, did a lot of musical theater growing up, and those skills have been so applicable to what I'm doing now. So. Long. Long answer. Long. Yeah. Just pretty much off the top of the dome. [00:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. Speaking about kind of early days and some of the things you were doing that segments way into a. Well, into my first question. Quite a hard guy to research because you. You came into this not long ago. You're still young. You haven't got that long background that a lot of people do. But during my research, I realized that you've. You've got quite an impressive resume. You did a business degree at Arizona State university, is that right? [00:03:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Finance degree. [00:03:11] Speaker A: Okay. And then an internship at Amazon. And you traded. [00:03:16] Speaker B: Thank you for doing your fucking research. The amount of times that someone will, like, ask me for an interview and throw a dumb question like, how did you get into combat sports? I'm like, take 20 minutes, but continue. Okay. Yeah. [00:03:30] Speaker A: What I was interested to know is that you've traded all of that for cage side commentary. And now going into amateur fighting, what was the moment that made you switch gears from the corporate world to stepping into the combat sports world? [00:03:45] Speaker B: I'll tell you this. This is an exclusive. I've never told this story before. I was so deeply involved at WP Carey in the extracurricular side of things. Financial Management association, working my way up from the marketing committee all the way to executive vice president over the three years I was in that organization, director of finance for the business school council. I taught WPC 101 for three years. My time at ASU was 1 billion% business focused. I thought I'd be a financial analyst. I thought, you know, the year and a half that I did commercial real estate, that might be my future. That might be where I fall into. And it never felt like it fit 100%. It was like I put a square in a circular hole so it filled a gap partially, but it was not a complete, satisfactory fit. And the moment that really crushed me and forced me to question my. Where I was putting my time and energy was this award my junior year at ASU that I did not receive. So this is a dumb, dumb fucking moment for it to, like, click. But thank God it did. So when I was a freshman, I saw this award. It was like a student leadership award. I can't remember the exact name, but the. The person that won it my freshman year was someone I greatly looked up to. And so I was thinking, from that moment forward, my goal is going to be to get this leadership award. I'm going to leave no doubt. Everybody at WP carry in these clubs in the student body is going to recognize Ben Davis as a leader on campus, as someone who is doing all the right things right. That's checked every box possible. Hence the insane amount of extracurriculars. So my junior year, I think I've got this award locked up. Now, this is when Covid is going on, and I've done so much to digitally engage the student body because I recognized, hey, we're at home. Maybe we had to leave Arizona. So I'm going to make an extra effort to keep people involved and keep people participating and give that community that I think a lot of people lack during that time frame, myself included. So I was just like, that entire year, man. I was doing so much to give back and create value, and when awards season came around, and I. I was like, there's no fucking way I'm not gonna win this shit. Like, finally, I've got this locked up, man. And the award went to the president of the Financial Management association. At this time, I was the executive vice president, and it crushed me. It fucking crushed me. I genuinely was. I don't get taken aback and blindsided too often in my life. That was one moment where I really out of left field. I was like, no fucking way. We're on a Zoom call, and I literally have my mouse over the unmute button ready to give my speech to accept this award. I was like, dude, I had it, like, all planned out, and. And then they announced that the guy had won it. And in the. In the back of my mind, man, and he's a great kid. He's a really nice dude, and he was. He was deeply involved as well. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, what he's being celebrated for is the work that I did, because he's. The president sees the figureheads. Like, that's what he's been working for. Shit that I fucking did. And that's really where it broke me, because I was like, why am I putting so much fucking effort in a space where I. My individual contributions might not be recognized? And maybe that's the ego talking, right? Maybe that, at the moment, was me sort of needing that validation. But either way, it pushed me to get to a spot where it's only on me, and it has to be on me. I either succeed or fail by me. I don't get to take other people's accomplishments and be buoyed off of them. I don't get to fail because of anyone else around me. It is 150% on me whether or not I succeed in this combat sports broadcasting journey or not. And I love that, you know, thankfully, it's. I've been making good on it, but that is. That's where it really flipped, that I didn't get that leadership award. And so I said, fuck this. I quit everything I was involved with at ASU, every extracurricular except for the teaching, I was like, fuck you guys. My entire senior year was dedicated to starting a building a brand on social media with. Within mixed martial arts and trying to. Trying to get opportunities. So that's. That is the long story of how, you know, I stopped doing business shit and started doing this. [00:07:53] Speaker A: How do you. How do you transition that, though? Like, going from being, in your mind, so focused on one direction of one path, and then creeping into kind of social media and commentating, how do you transition? [00:08:06] Speaker B: I think it boiled down to something that had connective tissue between both worlds, which was interpersonal relationships and networking. In the business world, it's all about who you know in the combat sports industry and maybe even just sports in general, it's all about who you know. That's the beauty of life, is once you can solve that puzzle and you can build an ecosystem of figures and influential decision makers that want you to succeed, you almost have to fuck yourself over to not succeed. You know what I'm saying? And so it really was a product of getting inside those conversations, meeting those people, creating good relationships with them, and then at the end of the day, being good and actually producing value. Talent is certainly the key, but it is only one factor. Can you do the job or can you not? Great. If you can't do it, you'll never be in the conversation. If you can do it, you'll be locked into the first stage of the conversation. But that's just the foundation. When you're building a skyscraper, you need a fuck ton more than just the foundation, or else you're just going to be a one story house. There's so many great broadcasters that will probably never get the platform that they deserve. There's so many great fighters that will never make it to the UFC despite being uber talented or having all of the necessary ingredients to be a superstar. That's the nature of the game. It's. It's a bit cutthroat, but again, that's when you have the network that will move mountains for you. One thing I've always been good at is people and interpersonal relationships. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you. You've been caterside for some of the bigger MMA promotions and obviously smaller from when you started and boxing promotions, including, like, the misfits that we've seen recently, and you get. You get a front row seat to that action. How does cooling the shots in real time compare to the adrenaline of actually being in the ring yourself? [00:09:57] Speaker B: I mean, when I'm providing commentary in the booth, I'm not getting punched in the face, which is always nice. That is. That is a huge benefit of the seat. I don't know. You know, I think that the times I've provided commentary and done broadcasting vastly outweighs the times I've competed. I've only made that walk three times now for, obviously, the various different disciplines. And I just say they're apples and oranges. It's impossible to compare. You know, the task is entirely different. The mentality is not comparable. It is certainly beneficial to have, I'd say, both sides of the coin covered, but in terms of trying to find direct comparisons, I wouldn't be able to. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So you've already stepped into this world of amateur fighting previously with karate combat and looking forward to your fight that's coming up. You've got your eyes set on a bare knuckle fight in October, on October 12. What's the biggest mental shift in preparing for bare knuckle, and why take the leap into what many consider as the. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Most brutal of combat sports for that exact reason? It's the most hardcore thing. It's beyond brutal. This is the ceiling of how much I can push myself. And as an entertainer, I always look for this next stone that I can unturn. Now, is it ferocious, and will I be getting into the fire and will I be absolutely burned? For sure. I have no delusion about this. I don't think I'm gonna be able to waltz in there and waltz out unscathed. I recognize that there will be some damage and it might be severe, but I've never let that stop me. And it's never been something that's concerning enough that would prevent me from making a decision. I view things from a variety of different levels. Right. Because I don't want to do things, especially fighting for just one singular reason. If I wanted to just fight, if I want to just fight and win fight, I would not be fucking doing bare knuckle, right? I would be. I certainly wouldn't be fighting Oscar. I would be cherry picking a shit opponent, competing on a local scene where there's no risk, and going out there and winning a fight. Because if that's your only incentive and your only motivator, it's pure ego, you know, I want to win a fight. Cool, right? Find one. The reason I do this is very multifaceted. There's a big financial incentive, right? So that helps me continue to focus on the broadcasting and pump some action into that. There is the broadcasting doors that are open. I would not be with the zone and misfits if I didn't go get fucked up by Gabe Silva. I knew that that was one of the biggest reasons I took that fight. That was one of the biggest reasons I was interested in influencer boxing was because I recognized the broadcasting opportunity. BKFC. Guess who they've just linked up with? Dazzone. Will there be a shift in their on air talent? I don't know, but it would make a lot of fucking sense for the guy who's currently doing influencer boxing broadcasting and someone who's competing on BKFC to step into that role in the event that there is a changing of the on air team. Now, I don't want to pull the curtain back too much, right? [00:13:08] Speaker A: No, please do. [00:13:09] Speaker B: Hopefully. Hopefully that illustrates a little bit more about, like, why I would do something as crazy as bare knuckle boxing. Is it going to be hard? Absolutely. Is it going to be painful? Without a doubt. But I have a lot of reasons why I do things and people gotta trust that, you know, listen, maybe I get CTE and the brain stops working. But for right now, up here is, again, nothing to be looked over. [00:13:34] Speaker A: With the presence that you've gotten from doing these fights, I imagine there's been a lot of interest from different promotions looking to get you involved without getting into too much detail. Have there been any big office you've had to turn down recently because you touched on it slightly there and either timing or because they don't quite align with your vision. [00:13:53] Speaker B: There was an offer from karate combat for the event that they just had yesterday, their Singapore show that unfortunately had to be turned down. I don't know. You know, I nothing like major. Like, I don't think I'm really that big of either a account individual size of my footprint. I don't think it's that huge. But yeah, the KC one was. Was one I had to turn down. But that was purely because I'd already signed on for BKFC and I've got a clause that says I can't fight. You know, before October 12, if things had worked out and maybe in a different timeline, could have juggled both, but I don't know. At the same time, like, especially after this BKFC fight, if someone wants me to fight. Again, it's just going to take a lot. And like I said, given my size, what I want isn't something that an organization will probably want to give, which is totally fine. I recognize I'm asking for something bit outlandish, bit more than my means potentially. But again, I like broadcasting way more than fighting. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna have that ask be set at a stupidly high number following this October 12 BKFC fight. [00:14:58] Speaker A: I like it because you can tell from the cuff from what you said that you're two, almost three steps ahead thinking about your, your future. How do you sit down then and set and plan goals in such a fast paced environment? [00:15:10] Speaker B: It's a product of where do I want to be and what steps do I need to take to get there. For instance, one of the goals, obviously, is UFC play by play. Love to be in that seat. And John Anik is. I consider him a friend. Ben Fitzgerald consider him a friend. And I think that the entire play by play roster, including John Gooden, including Dan Helley, is great that the UFC has. It would be a huge goal of mine to get there, right? And so I have to walk it back. Maybe that's step 100 is getting the UFC play by play offer. Step Zero would be, when I was a junior, getting involved with UFC esports and providing play by play there and then building a reel and then shopping that around to a local show in Arizona and then taking that reel and shopping it to a bigger show and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now we're at maybe like step 20 being on Dazone and working with the shows on UFC fight passed that I've worked with. So it's, it's kind of like that. And I apply that to everything. Bowling, for instance. So I do pro bowling broadcasting and my goal was to get on the ESPN and CB's bowling shows. Has that happened yet? No, because that's step 100. And I would say I'm only on like step six. I've done. I've been with Bull TV for about a year. I've done probably seven or eight of their smaller events that are just on that platform, commentating and doing the broadcasting work there across the PBA. PBA 50, PWBA. So that goal is still in development, right? But yeah, I'd say in a nutshell, that's how my mind works with goal setting. I make it easy, right? I make it easy because goals are tough. It's very abstract to say I want to achieve this crazy Mount Everest. You have to break it down because if it's unrealistic, you're never going to be motivated to do it. You're never going to get out of bed and, like, actually take the steps. But if you can break it down to, again, manageable boxes that you can check, every goal becomes more realistic. [00:17:10] Speaker A: I will say. When did you graduate? 2022. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Yeah, 2020. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think you're understating slightly your ability in all of this because to graduate in 2022 and then we ended at the end of 2024 and you've gotten to where you are, that's impressive. [00:17:31] Speaker B: I appreciate that. I don't know. I really don't take time to reminisce or look around and think, oh, man, look how far I've come or look how much I've achieved, because I'm just so focused on what's in front and what's ahead. And I feel like if I. If I get a bit sentimental about it, then it might almost demotivate me. I might be like, well, I'm happy with. I'm content. I'm satisfied. Right? Like, people would kill for where I'm at right now, for sure, but I'd kill where some other people are. Right. And that hunger and that ambition is, I'd say, my greatest key. But it is. I mean, it is wild how much things have changed since being a beyond broke college grad with a finance degree telling everybody around me, I'm going to pursue this mixed martial arts media journey, and I want to do broadcasting. It was, I mean, it was, I would say, for, like, my friends and family, their perspective on it was quite critical. You know, that's not really something that you can, after studying finance for four years, pivot so vastly get supported by many people around you. They'd be like, what the fuck are you doing? But like I said earlier, I was like, this journey is 1 million% going to be on me, whether or not it works out or nothing. I think that that level of fire under my ass has been the equalizer. Cause, like, I don't know, I could have taken a comfy cubicle job and just, like, sat there and done nothing, but I probably would have killed myself. So, thankfully, that didn't happen. [00:19:13] Speaker A: There's the title. No, I'm joking. Right? [00:19:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm gonna kill myself. [00:19:19] Speaker A: That was. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Whoa. [00:19:21] Speaker A: As a content creator and a social media personality, and you've built a platform now which has connected you with fans from all over the world. I mean, like, most of the people I speak to in the UK know who you are, and I'm sure you get that when you travel around. How do you balance the entertainment side and being so goal driven, as you've just said, to be able to take a minute and relax, like, how does that look for you? [00:19:42] Speaker B: I think it's just recognizing when to be on and when to be off. You know, at what moments do I flip that switch? And it's just in that mindset of either content creation or if I'm at an event during a fight week in that bend the bane mode, you know, because that is certainly a slight exaggeration of who I am or just a level of focus. Like, I'm just lasered in and everything in that fight week is to a heightened sense when I'm back here in Phoenix, man, I mean, I really. I don't do anything. I intentionally do not do anything because I need that time to rest, to decompress. You know, I have an amazing girlfriend, and her and I spend a ton of almost all the time that I'm here in Phoenix, which unfortunately is infrequent, is with her and with people that I cherish and care about and know me to a degree that the people online don't. I think it'd be very easy for me to, like, form this parasocial connection to either followers or. Or fans. And I rely upon that, which is a very unhealthy concept because that can go away and it is inconsistent and it's not real. You know, I truly appreciate to the bottom of my heart anyone that has ever followed, supported, been a part of my journey. But there's a reality that I don't know them, they don't know me. And the people that do are back here in Phoenix, and so grounding myself in that manner by turning off, flipping that switch when I'm back here, spending time on that floor, I think, enables me to really balance both effectively. Bit of a long answer, maybe not exactly a concrete one, but, yeah, it's. It's tough. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I get that. And I think with what you said about being so goal driven, it makes more sense as to why you've got an answer like that. I wanted to do a little, maybe exclusive. This was my exclusive question. I wasn't expecting it. To get it so early on, you've been a part, obviously. We spoke about the misfits boxing, which is known for its wild and unpredictable energy. I mean, recently we've seen people running up and grabbing their mic on the front stage and all sorts of crazy things. But what's the craziest thing that you've seen ringside that you just couldn't believe that you don't think maybe was broadcast. [00:22:00] Speaker B: Or there was a. I feel that the easy answer to that would be the conflicts in the crowd, right? Whenever some shit goes down and people in the vip section or front rows get into it and start scuffling, that would be the easiest one. And the most immediate example I have was at the salt poppy versus Amadeus Ferrari card. There was this big conflict with, gosh, I wish I had the details more firmly remembered, but I think it was like, some members of the sidemen and then, like, Ferrari's crew and they. It was a huge scuffle. There were a couple videos that had come out of it, but, I mean, it was like, directly next to the ring, people throwing chairs, security trying to get involved. It was a wild scene. And I remember the broadcast booth was positioned, like, literally 20ft away. So I'm just looking over there, seeing this, this huge group of bodies just colliding. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? Because that's. Because that's the thing is, like, at these events, there are those types of scenarios so frequently, and every time, my. My head is just like. Because I don't know the immediate reasonings for what's going on. So I just look up and I'm like, there's a brawl. You know, like, for instance, the Dublin one, he has tiki taki, and somebody got into it after his fight and that resulted in this big problem. And so I'm sitting over there. It was me, KSI, and then fucking Prince Naseem Hamid was behind us, and we're standing up and we're all looking over there where this, this shit's going down. And I'm just looking at him like I have no clue what is occurring. And I'm not gonna know for probably the next 2 hours, you know, however long the show goes on, I'm not gonna be clued in on what that was about. I'll have to ask someone afterwards or, you know, because I wish maybe, I wish I had some. In some immediacy in those details, but it would be kind of stupid if my producer was, like, in my ear going, yeah, so here's what happened. Hs Tiki Taki said this. And I'd be like, that's not what. We're not what we're here for. So I'd say the moments that aren't broadcasted are those types of conflicts and collisions where it's a brawl. I have no idea what the fuck is happening. And, you know, it's, it's entertainment, but, you know, kind of crazy. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like a two part question in my mind. And the second part was going to be these kind of crossover influencer events. I'll exclude your upcoming one and the karate combat one, but particularly something like misfits. The audience for that is an impressionable young group of individuals. How do you see the future of that kind of crossover combat sport headed with that kind of following? [00:24:51] Speaker B: I think it's tricky because the big, I would say, factor that's always working against a company like misfits is time. And these kids grow up, and what they're interested in now won't be what they're interested in two years. If they're following hs tiki Taki now, then maybe when they're 1516, they evolve out of it. There goes your demographic, right? It's a, it's a constantly depleting demographic. And so for me, I think the best suggestion would have to be diversification. You know, love what we were doing with bringing in Benson Henderson. You know, that's a whole different crowd. That's people that, you know, I would say are all walks of life, probably older because Benson's career has been, you know, so well documented, and he did retire a couple years ago. But bringing in figures like that, I would say more NFL superstars. Right. Le'Veon Bell is a guy who, I think when you say his name and you say Leveon Bell's boxing, there is that almost mainstream touch. You know, a nerve gets triggered by a big, wide audience. So bringing in people like that, I think that there's a criticism to be said about some of these influencers that don't really have any motion, don't really have any real actionable fan base. Maybe they have a fan base. Maybe it exists. But is it actionable? Is it going to convert into views? Is it going to convert into people engaging throughout fight week? Is it going to convert in ticket sales? Are you going to fill out the fucking venue? Can you do that? Some people can't yet. They have 500,000 followers. So it's like this science that I don't think we've figured out the equation on. Okay, you and I could both have 500,000 followers, but because you're an NFL Super bowl winner and a three time MVP and I eat hot dogs on TikTok, our followings are very different. And yours could be far more actionable because your 500,000 would love to see you compete again in something completely different. And there's this wide, mainstream audience that would go, I got three time MVP. Breezy is getting in misfits. Let's fucking, you know, let's push that. Let's create stories about that. Not hot dog guy, because who gives a fuck about hot dog guy? But the number is the same. I think that's the uniqueness of it, is figuring out which people actually have the fan bases that warrant this type of platform, because, you know, when we give opportunities to hot dog people, then it does dilute the card. Right. And I think it puts the promotion in a frustrating light. So, I don't know. I would say the easiest thing is quality over quantity. And recognizing that the fan base of maybe a show like misfits is, in a lot of regards, constantly diminishing. And so how do we replace that quicker than it's a. It's being lost. And I'm not going to pretend to know the answers. I'm a play by play commentator. Not my job, but those are, I would say, my opinions on it. [00:27:50] Speaker A: That's might go down as my favorite analogy of all time. Hot dog guy versus the three time. [00:27:57] Speaker B: Super bowl winner with your. [00:28:00] Speaker A: With your bare knuckle debut around the corner. I wanted to talk a little bit because we spoke a little bit, we touched on it a little bit offline about the kind of mental side and the way that you're changing stuff up. But what's your. What's your mental preparation like compared to when you first stepped into the karate combat ring? Are there any specific rituals or routines that you follow to get yourself ready for a fight of this magnitude? Or is it you're just comfortable? This is it. Let's go. [00:28:25] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing I've always told myself ahead of these fights is that the moment's not bigger than me and that I belong in these spaces, and I have earned the right to be here, and this is something that I'm supposed to do. I think that there's a lot of mental grounding that I have tried to lock into so that I don't get overwhelmed, so that I don't have this wave of anxiety and a tsunami of nerves. If I'm getting imposter syndrome, if I am again feeling like, oh, the preparation wasn't correct, or I'm not the guy, I'm not the guy. I am the guy. I am the fucking guy. And this is a spot that I've earned, and this is an opportunity I'm going to make the most of, and it's a fight I'm going to fucking win. That's. I think the biggest thing is instilling in myself a belief that it's victory. I love Oscar. He's a great guy. We have a lot of mutual friends, and I think a lot of people are pulling for him. And so there's been, there we go. There's this element of overlooking where I am telling myself I have to remind people that I have more experience. I've competed more recently, and I want this a little bit more, I think, and I have more to lose. Oscar is the guy asking questions largely behind the camera. I'm the fucking dumbass in front of it, right? So if I go get knocked out or I get my face cut up, bit more for me to lose. But there's. There was something. There was a line that I gave in the face to face with the Oscar that got taken out of context. But when I was fighting most wanted, I treated that like a hard spar the entire fight week. The visualization was, I'm cranking it up a couple notches, and that's all it's going to be. Now, the reason why I phrased it that way is because if I'm having a hard spar with someone, I'm still thinking. I'm still using the brain a lot more than anything else. If I'm having a fight, if I'm having a brawl, I might check out here, and I might just start swinging what I did against Gabe. Yeah, right? So if I. If I can mentally ground myself into a hard spawn, I'm still fucking going. But my brain's going, all right, jab, jab, faint, faint, faint. Boom. You know, if I can just find that place, then it allows me to operate in front of the crowd. It allows me to operate smart in the fight, and that's exactly what I plan to do again for Oscar, is this is a hard spot, cranking it up a couple notches, but I'm gonna think my way through this fight, not gonna brawl, and I. And hopefully that's going to be able to be enough. I know that a lot of people, when they think about BKFC, it's the winging overhands, and it's the people that don't really have much technique, but they're just tough homeless guys outside of 711 parking lot. You know, that's kind of the BKFC standard. I really don't want to bring that. I don't want to bring that type of fight. I don't want to bring that type of energy. I want to go in there be smart and fight effectively, because, again, I recognize the reality, but I don't want to get hurt, I don't want to get cut up. If I can do things to limit that possibility, then it is within my best interest. So I'd say, yeah, grounding myself and visualizing like that is probably the only mental tricks, but, yeah, I love that. [00:31:41] Speaker A: So I had a bit of a background in sales, and a big part of that is all mentality. Yeah, and having an iron mentality because you constantly get in the. No, no, no, no. But you've got to keep positive mentality with the law of averages. That one in 100. You've just got to find where that one is in that hundred. [00:32:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:02] Speaker A: You seem to have almost mastered it slightly. Have you got any tips or tricks for people that maybe want to do what you're doing or want to be in the social media side in terms of building that mentality? Because it's a hard thing to sustain, rather than because you can watch a YouTube video and come out of it thinking, right. Yeah, let's go. Nothing's going to beat me, but to do that for six months, a year, two years, different story. [00:32:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say it really draws all the way back to the improv experience. So if no one has done improv before or participated in improv comedy, the basis is you go up on stage in front of x amount of people without a script, and you and your scene partner must create something that is considered humorous. Right. That's the end goal, is to entertain, make people laugh, but without any real pre preparation. The amount of times that I have gone up on stage and had zero laughs, and it's just crickets and I drop a line and I'm like, this will get them. And there's no reaction. Couldn't even tell you, you know? And so it speaks to that same philosophy of failure and coming up short and trying again and not allowing it to deter you, but recognizing that it's part of the process and it's human and it's going to happen. That foundation has assisted with everything, content creation wise. I put up a tweet. I think this is gonna bang. This is gonna get a thousand likes. It gets ten. I have to delete it, you know? Does it deter you? You try again, you get up and just continue to proceed? [00:33:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:39] Speaker B: Within broadcasting, has every show been flawless? Have I constantly been going this, this, this and that in terms of trajectory? No. Some shows are better, some shows are worse, some shows are better, some shows are really bad. Does it deter you no, you take what you can and move the fuck on to the next part and just try your best. Then with the fights, you know, obviously it's a little different and I can't, one for one, apply this, but, you know, have they all gone my way? No. In fact, more of them have not. Then have. You know, I started off getting my ankle snapped in 13 seconds, then went and got knocked out and around. Finally got a gift in most wanted and was able to make the most of that. And now here we are at the most dangerous one yet. I could have stopped after the first two and been like, oh, well, I made that walk, and I don't have anything else to prove. Right? I could have stopped, but I don't see the value in stopping. You know, I see value in getting up, trying again, and trying to do it better, trying to improve. Right. So, I don't know, I think that within content creation or progressing one's brand, you have to accept failure. I mean, shit, I can tell you that we haven't even talked about the, like, 2022 to mid 2023, when I was doing a lot of MMA media work, I got fired from several MMA media outlets. Fired. The first one I did was this place called Fight Club. And I covered a Bellator event one week and then went. Went out to Texas for a PFL event. I was on top of the moon. This was April. Was I supposed to be studying for my finals for my last year at ASU? Yes. Was I? No. But I'm out there and I'm like, man, this is going really well. Like, again, it's spoke back to the. I'm proving everyone wrong. This is the correct move. I'm out there in Texas, and the day before the fights, I get a call from my boss and he says, we're gonna have to let you go tonight. You're done. And that was heartbreaking. I was in the bathroom crying. Shout out to my guy, Drake Riggs from MMA mania, and a couple other outlets that he works with for coming in there and chatting with me, because that was a hard, momentous. Could I have stopped? Could I have given up and been like, you know what? This isn't for me. I'm gonna go back to use the finance degree. I gave it a shot. Wasn't for me. Right. Clearly, it didn't work out. I'm gonna go back to finance now. I got home and I fucking got up and started working again. You have to be okay with failure, because it's gonna happen. And the only thing that you can truly control is your reaction to it and the steps you take afterwards. Are you going to give up? Are you going to say, I'm done? Or do you really want it? I want more than anything to be successful and achieve my goals. So I'm going to react positively and constructively when those setbacks inevitably come. [00:36:34] Speaker A: I think I'm going to put that into the start of one of those motivational speeches I listened to with. [00:36:39] Speaker B: You have to do like the black and black and white lighting, some David Goggins. [00:36:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Outro by M 82 playing in the background and start to crescendo up for sure. Tearing up. Do you just. This is that kind of from my experiences. Do you have any experience? And it goes a bit hippie, doesn't it? Do you have any experience of kind of visualization and like law of attraction to believe in that kind of stuff as well? Because the kind of way you portray that is as if you just mentality. [00:37:07] Speaker B: I think there's a very real level of manifesting and speaking things into existence. And if you are thinking in a mindset of creation and every day trying to add value wherever you can, then eventually you will meet those crossroads where the hard work rewards you with luck of an opportunity that's passing by. If you don't take those steps though, you're not going to get to that intersection in time and you'll see it pass right in front of you, but you won't be able to jump out and hold on to it. So I completely agree that there's a huge benefit in manifesting and, and thinking positively. More so than anything else. If you're, if you're a fucking Debbie Downer, things probably aren't going to go your way. You know, if you're always coming away from something going, man, that sucked, man, that was tough. You're not going to get better, man. You know? And so, and so I think, like that's. And again, to reiterate from that previous point, like sometimes things do suck and some shit goes wrong, but it's like, you do have to dig through it and be like, okay, here's a silver lining. Here's one thing I can pull that's an academic moment and a piece of value that I gained from that shitty, tough experience. And I don't know, I mean, there's been some huge opportunities that have completely come out of nowhere for me. Completely out of nowhere. I'd say the biggest ones have come out of nowhere. Because ultimately, as much faith as I have in my own talent and work ethic, and. And people around me, dude, the conversations going on between groups or behind closed doors that you're not in. Crazy, right? And then you just get a call and they're like, hey, we'd actually love you to come do this. Or, hey, do you want to fight Anderson Silva's son? Things that come out of nowhere that you have to take. So I think there's a level of patience as well. If you're not patient enough, it's not going to happen. Shit takes time. You know, that's been. That actually is kind of the concern with how quick things have been moving for me. I'm like, what? Is it going to slow down, please, just a way. Is this gonna. What? Is this gonna plateau? And I'm gonna be like, man, I haven't had a career movement in a year. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Well, to give you some kudos, Angus Jenkins is an editor that does some of the stuff of the website for the against fence Channel. And when I was spoken to him, he touted you as the next Joe Rogane. So you got hard. You got big boots to fill. I think on Angus expectations, I gotta. [00:39:39] Speaker B: I gotta lose my head of hair first, man. I gotta go bald. And then I can truly fill those shoes. [00:39:46] Speaker A: Well, compared to your hair, about three years ago, when it was, like, down here, right? It's getting there. [00:39:52] Speaker B: I. So that was. That had to have been the worst hair period for me. I thought I looked so good, dude. I thought with, like, the shoulder length hair, I was like, man, this is sexy as fuck. I look back on that and I'm like, what a dork, too. [00:40:07] Speaker A: I am going to insert a picture on the YouTube now so everyone can see what we're talking about. [00:40:12] Speaker B: My God, the worst one. Maybe I'll send this to you. I did. So I was huge into, like, comic Con and whatnot. Okay. In, like, 2018, 2019, I went to this local. It called, like, fan fest or whatever, and I'm a big daredevil guy. So Charlie Cox was doing meet and greets and fan photo shoots and things like that. So I'm dressed up in this whole daredevil outfit, and I've just got. I mean, my hair looked terrible. Looked disgusting. So I'm standing there in the photo with him, and I just look back in that photo, and I was like, my hair? Come on, man. My hair ruined. This entire fucking moment looks like a mop on my head. [00:40:46] Speaker A: But I think we all have that. We're looking back at old pictures ourselves and think, what the hell was I thinking? You're someone who knows how to build an audience, especially in the combat sports world. What do you think it takes to stand out as a content creator in a space that's becoming more and more crowded? And how do you manage to keep people invested, not in just the commentary and the fighting and then juggling the both at the same time? [00:41:11] Speaker B: It's a good question because there's a lot of things that I used to do, I would say, when I was maybe building the brand that I don't think are appropriate to do at this current moment in time, maybe jokes that I used to make, tweets that I would put out, and nothing like insane, but certainly a line that I've always tried to walk because I am someone that likes to push the envelope. My sense of humor is one that, that toes the line. So that's always going to be a factor. And I think it's just about moderating how far and when. But be different, I would say is, is the biggest thing. Find out what's unique about you that you can bring, whether it's the way that you make a meme as small and dumb as that sounds right. You know, roll with that. Roll with what is different about you. And the biggest thing I would say, and this is why I like Twitter the most. I know we haven't queued up which social media platform sucks and which one doesn't. But the reason why I like Twitter is because it really is an ecosystem for engagement, because you are directly responding to people and you could do that all day long. And I think there's so much beauty in that directness on Instagram, if you would you, if you put up a post and not comment on it, you can reply to the comment. But that's really not the same as having a discourse like you can on Twitter and was just always so attracted to that type of platform where the content could spur a conversation and then that would put the content on other people's pages because they're currently having an argument in the replies. And so it just feeds the engagement cycle a little bit more. Is there a science to it? For sure. Is it complex? Not at all. I think it's very straightforward with how you can attract people and then build and grow. The question I would pose is, are you going to do it the right way or not? And there's been times where I haven't, where I've said some inflammatory things or maybe made to too mean of a joke about someone, and you look back on those moments and you go, maybe that wasn't the right way, did I achieve the same thing? Did I get people talking? Did I get engagement? For sure. But. But was that really valuable? Was that positive? No. So I would say that if you want to build a brand, select the platform that works best for you, and then understand the best way to go about it on there and accept the bed you make. Right. If you want to be a fucking a troll and you want to get under people's skin and that's all you want to do, more power to you, stick to it, right. For me, I think the evolution of my content has been a product of where I want to go and how my goals have evolved and changed. It's like, could I achieve becoming a UFC play by play, by making mean jokes about Jamal Hill? Probably not. [00:44:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Until you see Jamal at an event and he. [00:44:06] Speaker B: And then he clocks me and, you know, there goes that, you know, and that's. That is literally like conversations I've had with Brennan Fitzgerald, who is a UFC play by play commentator, John Morgan, who is one of the best combat sports journalists in the history of the game. Both. I've had conversations with both guys different times about, hey, just watch what you're posting. Maybe tone it down. You know, I think in those moments, it'd be very easy to. To get defensive and hostile and go, no, they don't know what they're saying. I'm getting 20 likes. I'm getting 20 responses, you know, and feed the ego. But thankfully, I've gotten to a point where I'm like, yeah, you know, you guys are right. So it's. I think it just, again, boils down to which platform, how you want to approach doing it, and what do you ultimately want, and if you can answer those three questions, you can probably get 100 followers and then hate yourself. [00:45:07] Speaker A: It's a good one because we'll use me as an example. Yeah, the against defense channel and everything going on around it is doing quite well. Me, as an individual, I'm not the biggest on X or Twitter, and I had this kind of idea in my head that if I just paid for the premium subscription and then just posted stuff, it would get out there. But it doesn't. [00:45:27] Speaker B: No. [00:45:28] Speaker A: How would you tell me to approach gaining a following? Forget the kind of context of what I'm posting and just more about the best way to do it. [00:45:37] Speaker B: I would say what's been pretty influential in the last couple years for me is having accounts on Twitter that have size and have an interest in spreading your content. So maybe that's a group chat that you create and it's people that you're friendly with that you're on good terms with, and then you can create, again, this ecosystem where you're all sharing each other's content and your growth is a byproduct of their participation in you because they like you and they want to help spread the breezy message and the breezy agenda. That's, I mean, no bullshit. Like, that's, that's one of the, the ways that I feel I've experienced a lot of growth is there were bigger accounts on Twitter. MacMalley is a buddy of mine, and he's got 200,000 followers. And there were many instances of him either retweeting, engaging with, quote, tweeting things that I had posted, or announcements I made or career developments that I put out there. And so I think that's a big, a big player, because the other thing is, again, if people see these big accounts retweeting you and engaging with you, they're gonna, they're gonna probably follow, right? Because they're like, oh, we like this person. So if that person likes breezy, then by transitive property, I like breezy. So that's, I think in terms of, like, the nuance and the science behind it. And this is only specifically Twitter. I can only give thoughts and opinionate on that one platform, which is not valuable. If you ask me about Instagram, I'd be like, dude, I don't even know. I've got, like, 8000 followers on Instagram. Haven't been able to grow it at all. So any of my input is really just siloed on that one platform. But I would say that's creating relationships with accounts that do have size that will then participate in your efforts. That's probably a good thing to have. [00:47:30] Speaker A: As we approach the 1 hour mark, I want to do one more question, and it's one of my favorite questions from the people that have experienced the journey to the point that you have, whether that be as a fighter or as a coach or as a column or what's the word? I'm looking for a commentator. So as a commentator, if you could go back to the person when you first started this, what's one piece of advice you'd give them, knowing what you. [00:47:57] Speaker B: Know now, the one thing that I'd probably extend to myself, and I'll give a specific time frame for this, because I don't want to be too abstract with like, oh, I'll go back to four year old Ben. I go back to. Can't even speak English at that point. This is invaluable to him. I'm playing with blocks. I don't know. I would say if I could go back to me on the night of October 14, 2022, which was the first time that I provided in person, play by play for a live mixed martial arts event that night. Afterwards, I would say two things. I would say, keep the energy up and always approach things with as much energy as you have and trust the process. Just trust the process. What's going to happen is going to happen, and it's meant to happen. The setbacks are meant to happen, and that's why you have to keep the energy up, because if you can ride through it all and you're on the surfboard of positive, and then the process will reward you. So I probably. And again, I mean, that wasn't that long ago, all things considered, that, I mean, we're coming up on two years since that date, of course, but it's, you know, a lot. A lot's developed. And I would say good reason for that is those two things, high energy and then trusting the process. [00:49:22] Speaker A: Thank you. As we close the door in this chapter, we look forward to this one. I'm just going to let you lead out the end of the podcast, which is saying what you've got going on and just anything you want to say to the fans or anything like that. [00:49:35] Speaker B: Yeah, come watch me get knocked out. On October 12, Marbella, Spain BKFC 67. I go to war and will absolutely lose in the first round in devastating fashion. You don't want to miss it live on the BKFC app, I think. But if you're interested in where I'm better, make sure you tune into zone, follow the X series, UFC Fight, Pass APFC, and hopefully before the end of the year, I'll have a couple more organizations that I'm yapping about on the broadcast. [00:50:04] Speaker A: If you guys don't already follow Ben, I'm sure you probably do, hence why you're here. His links will be down below, like, subscribe wherever it is and we'll see you in the next one.