Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome. I'm absolutely bricking myself for this one, but, yeah, welcome to the against the Fence podcast. We're doing a little bit of a different one today for the people that don't know. Obviously, you're the editor that is behind all the news articles and that you're on the website. But beyond that, now you're starting to step into the promotional world of mixed martial arts and combat sports. And people might not always think about the work that goes on behind the scenes to plan these events and put these events together. So the reason why I want to sit down with you today is to kind of get a little bit of an insight into how that comes together and some of your experiences on the way.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah, done.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: It's in Hot One style. Obviously. The questions hopefully will get a little bit more intense as the source gets more intense. That is the idea, but we'll see how it's going.
I want to start off. I was looking through your Instagram, and one of the things I love, one of the things I love is where you've got all these pictures of Houston in front of, like, big famous landmarks across different countries. So I wanted to know what's been your favourite place to visit? What's your favorite landmark? And why.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Not? That's a fruity chili sauce.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: It's nice.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Not, I guess, not the question I thought I was going to get first. I guess the kind of the weirdest one. People kind of talk to me about my traveling stuff. They're like, oh, you went to Kazakhstan? I'm like, yeah. So it's got to be the Baytrek Tower in Kazakhstan. I think it's the tallest tower in. I might be super, super wrong there, but it's one of the tallest towers in kind of Central Asia.
And I was visiting a mate out there. He was studying up there, and he was like, you should come visit me in Kazakhstan. I was like, yeah, right. Like, people know better than to invite me to things because I will follow through on them.
So, yeah, I think that that's definitely the one. The most impressive one, I guess.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I want that picture. We'll put that picture in there for people to see it. Yeah, that's quite a good one. Cool. We're moving on quickly. Let's go to number two.
So these ones I could probably eat all of.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Still not super hot. Still not super hot, but I don't want to. Yeah. Cut to me in 20 minutes. Now. Crying.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah, Watch now before all the blood and punches you. Previously, you've worked for the Likes of Welsh.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: The Welsh exiles.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: You've done some freelance stuff for some PSG based fan pages.
How does doing media and social media for those kind of organizations compare to what you do now?
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. I guess for the Welsh exiles it's a little bit less social media, but I kind of found myself doing that. So that was what I originally went in to do, obviously with PSG Talk. I was a PSG fan. I was 16, 17 years old. I just wanted to write and I think definitely in the world of work that I've gotten to now, I literally just went out and just started doing it and the right people found me, really. So yeah, it's different. Yeah, I definitely prefer doing stuff now because I get a lot more access when I actually get to go to the events and kind of freedom to do what I want.
Yeah.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Moving on to number three. This is one which is quite famous in I think most kitchens around the world.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Frank's Red Hot.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Frank's Red Hot Sauce. I need to make sure that I'm putting these away so I don't mix them up.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: I'm just keeping them in line. Yeah.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Ready.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Quite like Frank's.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Dom likes to do the Franks wings.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Do they?
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Yeah, they do and they're really good.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: We don't, we don't have Frank's where I live, really. So sorry. We don't have Domino's where I live, really. We do. It's a long way out though. But yeah, yeah.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: For those that don't know, Angus lives basically in the middle of nowhere.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: It's proper Valleys boy. I'm not gonna do that again.
Right. So hopefully moving forward now, things should start heating up a little bit.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Hopefully.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll see.
Fight promotion is known for its high stakes, high stress kind of business. It's full on when they're really quiet and then super full on. What's the most intense or unexpected challenges you faced so far whilst trying to organize an event?
[00:04:13] Speaker B: I guess this is a bit of, this is a bit of insight which I guess you quite like. So back in London, I was in charge of arranging a four man tournament between four kind of smaller creators for a fairly big show, Crypto Fight Night. And it took us ages to arrange. Really, really long. Gonna get in the fighters, get in them. Because they've never really been in a professional kind of fighting setup. We had to get them brain scans, blood tests, etc obviously get the contracts done.
So we got to fight week. It was all good. The night before they weighed in it was all good. And on the day, one of the fighters pulled out.
And it's a four man tournament. It's fairly integral to have all four men there.
He never, he never messaged me. He just messaged one of the owners and said I just couldn't arrange travel.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: So, yeah, so he people out. Which led to a bit of a stressful two hours trying to get a replacement. We got the replacement, but he arrived too late. So it went ahead as a three man tournament. It was all of it. It doesn't sound super stressful now, but at the time I was, I was pretty, pretty annoyed, pretty stressed, but. So that's the most stressful. And I guess another you mentioned the kind of the most intense moment was walking past Chris Cyborg's changing room, who was on the card. She was just screaming in there, like, hitting pads, like going nuts. I was like, I would hate to be in that room. Yeah. Oh, yeah, she. Yeah, she's intense, man. I don't think I spoke to her at all the entire fight week, but she was just there staring at people like, yeah, Intense fighter.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, fair enough.
Next one is we've got her Nando's heart, which I think I was. When I was trying to do the ordering of this, I was like, so we'll toss this one up and then I'll let you tell me which one's which one's hotter if I got it right.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I'd say it's hotter than the Franks. Yeah, I think so.
I just quite like frags as well, I guess. Maybe a bit of bias that is kicking.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: It's a bit of a slower one, isn't it? Yeah, it starts to creep up.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, man.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Only halfway through managing fighters, coaches, sponsors and fans all under one riff can't be easy. How do you manage the personalities and egos involved in fighting promotions?
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Not very well, if I'm completely honest. You get a lot of guys and maybe some of them will think that they're worth more than they are, which thankfully I've not come across very often, especially not with guys that I work closely with.
I think you've got to keep everyone happy. I think sometimes you've got to kind of speak to guys, obviously a very different way, depending on who it is. You've got some guys who are a lot more intense and they want to be told straight up, this is what's going to happen. You need to do this. You need to do this.
You've got some guys who are a little bit Less experienced, such as one man behind the camera who I've just arranged a fight for.
He, obviously he needs a bit more kind of help in knowing what the events are. So it's. You've got to kind of know who you're speaking to. And yeah, I've not had to deal with sponsors yet, but I know that's coming down the line. I think that's going to be even worse. But I think if you professionalize it and put your pitch out there and know what you're talking about. That is spicy, that. Then I think, you know, it's a lot better. Yeah. All I could think about was the spice.
Yeah, cool.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: We'll move on to the next one, hopefully.
I don't know. I think there's a point where you get so hot that it just kind of. You're really done, aren't you?
So next is. Is it the chipotle chili sauce?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: We'll see.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Cheers.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: That's nice.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: That's nice. Bit of a kick. It's definitely hot on the.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Social media has changed the game in a huge way and fans are often now just one click away from the action being put out there onto social media. Even if you're not watching the fights, you still know what's going on. How do you balance hyping fights online versus the traditional marketing strategies for people like cfm?
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. We've.
We've spoken a lot about marketing with cfn. It's different to normal boxing, regular boxing. You put the fight out there, people talk. You know, it's Anthony Joshua. Great. That sells itself.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: You get a similar bit to that, obviously with the misfits fight. KSI. That sells itself.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: But what people maybe don't realize realize is when misfits put on their smaller shows when you, you know, they're free to watch onto Zone, they're not pay per view. A lot more goes on in terms of kind of telling the storyline, telling people why these guys are fighting, why, you know, two smaller creators but staff, big followings, why people should kind of tune in even if they're not there.
Target audience sort of thing. So, you know, it could be. It could be.
I'm picking someone random, like, you know, a beauty influencer, a makeup sort of YouTuber.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: You need to kind of tell the story to show why people who aren't interested in her should still watch her fight. A lot of it is maybe bad blood. A lot of it is, you know, they're fighting for pride or anything like that. So A lot of it's storylines and I think a lot of promotions struggle to do that well and it's something that I definitely try to do with my fighters, but sometimes it's not that easy. You just have to get your guys in there.
As I said, obviously s his fights coming up soon. We weren't really blessed with fighter options. Thankfully someone's taken the fight. Yeah, it's not much of a storyline there. However, obviously we're all gonna get behind him. The ATF fans are gonna get behind him. And I guess, I guess in that sense you are just using the audience and going for the fight. But yeah, it's, it's a tough one to balance. Yeah, definitely. I don't know if that answered the question. I went on a tangent, but yeah.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: I mean, kind of start. Everyone's gonna start somewhere, right?
[00:10:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: And you're never always going to be, you know, the first guy guy on the first fight of the night.
You start there and you've got to work your way up. And how do you do that just from turning up and winning fight.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Next one is, let's have a look. The Stinging Scorpion.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: If it's got scorpion in the name.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: Then it's not, it's not going to be filling me with confidence.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: No, I don't think so.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Under there. Here we go.
Yeah.
Whilst I was doing some research, obviously, I first looked at the fact that you, you started off in this journey kind of doing social media for your parents business.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: You stole my LinkedIn.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Now what I wanted to understand is though, is growing up, what was the vision and what was the dream for you? What did you think you were gonna do? And now that you're here, how's that changed and what you want to do?
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a weird one. I think if you ask my dad, he'd give you a similar answer to this. So I don't know if many people know I went to university to do maths. Yeah.
And it was my best subject in school. Didn't know what I wanted to do in life. I went, just gonna go in and do maths and maybe I thought sports, science, something like that.
First year and second year went fine. Third year, obviously I started getting more into the boxing side which meant my studies kind of dropped off a little bit which meant I was struggling a bit more in uni and I failed a couple of modules. I went, fine, I'll just reset third year and it's kind of a bit more of a chill year chance for me to do a Bit more work.
Then the work just took off and I just couldn't do it all. So. Yeah, so I dropped out of uni. I didn't finish it.
You? I complete the first two years. I still get to graduate, which is. I'm really lucky. I never thought I'd be here. I wasn't a massive, massive boxing fan. Yeah. When I started uni, so when I went in, I definitely didn't think I'd be here. But it's weird, I think, I think when you just. When I just put myself out there and when this is what I'm gonna try and do. I wasn't getting paid for it and now I guess I'm here. Will I continue doing it? I don't know. But I've got the degree now, so I can always kind of drop back and I can go and finish my studies. Don't know. Couldn't tell you. I'm still kind of young enough that I could get away with, with messing around, doing this stuff for now.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Is there a particular person you look at in that kind of scene and think, yeah, I could see myself doing that one day.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: I don't know if it's. See myself doing what he does, but I really like how a previous person on this podcast, Ben Davis, I really like how he's kind of put himself out there. Obviously he went on the smaller shows. He was, he was, you know, he's doing it for free. He was.
I don't see myself as being a play by play commentator. I will be doing commentary. I have done some commentary.
I don't see myself doing that. But I like how he kind of built his way up and I think, you know, the sky's the limit for him and I think he'll continue to grow and I, you know, if I can be half as successful as him, you know, he's super young as well.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: And he's had, you know, some fights on different promotions, I think. Not that I look up to him, but I think, you know, I really appreciate, kind of, I can appreciate how he's grown and I think that's really, really impressive from watching him. Really.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I see that a lot because you two have probably both fairly similar. When you had like this one direction you were looking at through the degree or whatever it was you're doing at university and then you've just completely gone and gone and got a completely different direction. Yeah. And you're both kind of in this world. You're both in the same seat. So. Yeah, I look forward to like three, four years time and then just seeing where you're both at there now.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Cool. Going on to the next one. It is the Caribbean chili sauce. Jesus. Okay. I've got quite a bit of sauce in this one, so let me just.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it's left a red stain on the toe on my board, so. Yeah.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Right, let's go.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Cheers.
Yep, yep. That's. That's.
Wow. Okay. Yeah, as soon as I bit into it, I was like, that's not that spicy.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's creeping a little bit.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: A little bit. Get the question out of the way quite right.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Now. There's. There's more to fights than what happens in the cage. Sometimes it's about the drama, the backstory and the fighters rivalries. How much do you focus on building storylines versus just booking the best fights possible?
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Okay, so for Sai, he's never fought. I think it's important that we get this fight out of the way. Hopefully he gets to win.
And look, he's fighting on DKM at the moment. I've got massive respect for them and I love what Danny does. You know, I'm shocked that he was able to kind of put this fight together just because, you know, both sides, both guys are quite small names and stuff, but they've brought them together. Brilliant.
You know, if I, if I could wave my magic wand and get sized by anyone, I'd love to. Him, I'd love for him to fight like a similar size.
Either a UFC fan.
Like it like a. So like a fan channel person or something. Like, you know, we spoke about MMA guru. Like.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, I think we'd be matching up with you.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But I quite like either having someone in the same field or you do someone in a completely different field, which makes it completely weird. So, for example, I really want to see two rugby players fight. I've been working on that for a while.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Failing that, I'd love to see a rugby player versus an American footballer.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: I think it just makes sense.
No one wants to see rugby versus UK football because they're not about it.
Yeah. So I think that's slightly off top of it. I think for someone like, sigh. Obviously in the field that we're doing it, I think it makes more sense to kind of keep it like that. Fez Batista, he's, he's, he's a character. All right.
I think. Yeah. I think someone like him, you want to give him guys who have a bit more experience. I don't think you can put him in there with super New influencer boxers simply because he's just had that. Got that experience. He's had three fights now. He's trained with Roy Jones Jr.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: Yeah, he's actually out in Vegas now. He's having a bit of a holiday. He had a tough fight last time out. So, yeah, there's. We've. We've had a couple names.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:39] Speaker B: I can't. I can't.
But, you know, he's been fairly public with one of them, Luis Pineda. He's. He's been quite vocal. He'd love to fight him. I think they're both two kind of tall, rangy fighters and it'll be a great fight.
But for him, I think you just keep him, Keep giving him either MMA guys or guys with a bit more boxing experience just because you can't put them in there with. With newer guys. And I think no one wants. I don't think it looks. Everyone wants their fighters to win, but you don't want to see your fighter. It just doesn't. It doesn't look good on you if your fighter goes in there and just beats some poor kids. You know, it's just not. It's not great luck. No one wants to see that. It's not entertaining. It's not fun. Great. He wins, but it's not that fun. So I think, yeah, that's how I'd kind of compare the two there. Like, I wouldn't do Fez versus Sai, for example, I guess, is the answer.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
Next one we've got is this, the flaming Naga chili sauce.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: All right.
Cheers.
I missed them when they were warm.
Yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: They've cooled down a bit, haven't they?
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Wasn't too bad, though, actually. No, that's not too bad, actually.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: No, it's hotter.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: That was. Yeah, far hot.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Oh, actually, it's time. I don't know.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: It's burning a little bit. Well, that's why we've got the milk. So, yeah, if you.
That's like, you need the chance.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: If you want me to suffer, I'll suffer.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Oh, so if I don't, you won't.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Brave man, Breezy.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Now, we were talking about Ben the Bain Davis earlier and obviously recently he fought in. In bare knuckle. And on the follow up to that. There's a lot of buzz around Bernac fighting these days and old combat of the modern era and medieval era. We even see some people getting in there now, full suits of armor and just chopping away each other. As a promoter, what are your thoughts on its growing popularity and Is it something you're interested in promoting more of?
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a tough one, bkfc, because I think you've really got to be a special kind of, I think it's fair to say nutcase to go there.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: And I think I told Ben I think he's crazy for taking it, but, you know, gotta respect it, man. Yeah, bare knuckle. It's a weird one. I, I almost feel bad going to my fighters and asking them to do bare knuckles simply because I'm like, like, please don't take this unless you are super, super keen to do it. And some guys really, really are. Some, if any of them are like, I'm kind of not sure it's not worth pursuing just because. That is spicy, isn't it?
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's creepy even more.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: I, I, I like it. I think, I think it's, it's tough to watch and it, it's scary, but it's look, it's entertaining. They've brought Connor and Connor's, you know, he's, he's the, the man with a mouth. He's, he's, yeah, you know, he's the best at promoting and I think that's such a great, it's such a great dynamic they've got there. Obviously you've had Ben Bryce Horse fighting back in January on it, so that's good. You've got Aaron Chalmers. So you do have these guys sort of crossing over into it now.
Yeah, I like it. I like it.
I don't know. I'm not against having fighters on it, but it has to be right. A lot of guys want a lot of money to do it. Okay, so it's a tough one. It's a tough one that, yeah, real awkward, awkward situation.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: This is the bit that I've really not been looking forward to. This is the bomb beyond insanity.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Why is that lower than the Reaper hot sauce?
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Because it is lower. But this one's more of a, this one's more of a extract and just tastes like crap. So there's not even like dark red. It's not even a temp.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: I don't know if you careful your.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: Fingers after this as well. Yeah. Oh, man.
Oh, man.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Right, okay. Right. Cheers.
Oh, oh.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Now every me, every fighter is a de matchup.
That one face off you'd pay anything to see.
Now, every fight fan has a dream matchup. That one that you'd love to and you'd pay absolutely anything to see if you could promote a dream fight. Between any two photos, the fighters, past or present, who would it be and why?
[00:21:21] Speaker B: That's outrageous.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: And as well, it tastes like.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: It's horrible. Oh, mate.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: Going to join you.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Oh, my days.
Oh, mate.
Sweating.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: In tears, man.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm crying.
I can't tell if it's the laughing or if it's just that it's that hard.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Right, face off. Any two fighters. What?
Okay, apologies for the delay. Let's come back. Okay. So Influencer boxing. The fight that everyone wants to see is KSI versus Jake Paul. Yeah, part of me kind of passed that now, I think.
Still hot.
Both guys have kind of gone on different trajectories.
Wow, that's hot. It's a tough question, actually. There's one I really wanted to see a few years back and it was booked. It was Otto Wallen versus Dillian White. I'm trying to go a bit more profighter here.
Massive fan of Otto. I've chatted to him loads. Dillian White, I think, was there for the beating.
Otto's had a. Had a rough tough run then against Anthony Joshua. I think. I think that just would have elevated Swedish boxing more. I was born in Sweden and I think especially in. Obviously, UK's got a great boxing scene. Wales, unfortunately, isn't amazing at the moment. We've got a couple of great fighters, but not, I think, Otto Wallen. Had he gone in there and beaten Dylan White, I think it would just sort of elevated it. We'd have had events in Sweden and stuff. I think it's tough to think because my mouth is on fire, but I think just off the top of my head, I think for. For Sweden, I think that would have been amazing. They've been. You know, I'd love to go to an event out there. Just doesn't quite happen at the moment. And I think just for the kind of national boxing, that would be great. And I think Wilderness would have won, but. Sorry, I rambled on a bit there. I'm trying.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Do you want a bit of some of my meal?
[00:24:01] Speaker B: No, I'm all right. I'm alright now. I'm all right. Yeah. Yeah. Just. Yeah.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: You ready?
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. That was the hottest thing I've ever eaten.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: That is just.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: And it's the second.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: And it tastes terrible.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the main. That's the main thing. Yeah, it's. It just tastes spicy.
Heat level 5 chilies. Okay. Eat first, ask questions after.
Cheers.
Regret this.
It's tastier.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Oh, it's a bit slower, though.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: It's slow, but I can feel it coming.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:44] Speaker B: This will be Awful. Right, quick, get the question.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: All right, we made it to the final round. Amazing. It's interesting to see kind of from here, like the story from going to uni to where you are now, and you've got a long way to go. What's the biggest lessons that you've learned so far in fight promotion? And what would you want to pass on to someone that's looking to get into the same kind of business?
[00:25:04] Speaker B: If you value your mental health, don't as stressful as anything. Yeah, but look, I think. I think with all jobs, I think you need a bit of stress. I think if you. If you just want to work a nine to five, it's. It's not. Maybe it's not kind of as stressful, but I think.
I think that sounds really out of touch, actually. I shouldn't have said that.
Well, I mean. Oh, wow.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: I'm just really happy I don't have.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: To talk for anyone that wants to get into it.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: Feel my eyes watering.
That's all that if anyone wants to get into it. And I think this is kind of good advice for anyone who wants to get into anything, almost. I think social media is such a massive tool these days. It used to be you just go on and post about stupid stuff. You post about your holiday and that. Yeah, maybe that's true for my Instagram, but I think for Twitter. I wouldn't use Twitter anymore if I didn't get opportunities out of it.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:03] Speaker B: Every opportunity I've had has come through social media just from me posting about things. And I think a lot of people will see my Twitter and go, oh, he's. He's just an idiot. He's, you know, he's a troll.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Maybe less of a troll, but I think. Well, I like making jokes and stuff online, but I think you put yourself out there, you talk to the right people on. On any social. You know, LinkedIn's massive. I've really gotten to. Recently, you stop put. You know, if you wanted to get into travel writing, for example, you start putting stuff out there, you just start writing yourself, and the best thing to do is just to start doing it and then hopefully the money will follow.
And I was very lucky that I found the right people and got the right opportunities. So. Yeah.
Sorry, that's hot.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: No, that is. Yeah. Thank you very much.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: This has been fun. It's something I've always wanted to do.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: So has it been fun?
[00:26:55] Speaker A: I'm just glad that I've got to experience it and, And. And I'm really happy. I've got experiences of you. So yeah. Thank you very much guys. Far suffering, if you are still here, don't forget like follow, subscribe. We'll see you in the next one.
