Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the against the Defence podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, buckle up, because today's guest is a powerhouse in MMA journalism. If you've ever found yourself refreshing twitter for the latest fight announcements, chances are this man was behind the breaking news. Known for his sharp insights, unparalleled accuracy, and deep connections within the MMA community, he's the go to guy for things all fight related, covering everything from local european events to the biggest UFC cards. He's truly a titan in the sports media landscape. Please welcome the man who's always one step ahead of the game, the one and only, Marcel Dorff.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: If you. If I ever run for president, I want you to be my first person, man. I mean, thanks for that introduction.
Yeah, thanks for having me, man. It's an honor to be here.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: No, I really. Yeah, I really appreciate the time. We had some slight difficulties, and kudos to Marcel because he was super patient with me. So thank you very much. I did a lot of research building up to this, and there was this one particular kid. I can't remember his name. He'd absolutely nailed it and smashed it out the park. And I couldn't find anything online about you in terms of personal, behind the scenes kind of stuff. You are quite a private guy, which I respect. And I didn't want to plagiarize this kid's incredible work at researching all about you, so I thought I'd do it differently. But seeing as we've got a bit of a background there. I know we spoke about it a little bit before. Just talk me through what you've got back on those shelves.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Those are funko pops, man. So, yeah, it's like, a lot of things. It starts with one, then it starts with two, and then it's got out of hand, you know? So it's like, story of my life.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Okay. And you were saying that they're all musical based.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: The most are. You know, you got some. Some other stuff, but most is musical, as you can see here. It's like Alice in chains, TLC, guns n roses. You got notorious. B I g, Michael Jackson. So there's a lot of music.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's quite a. That's quite a range of genres. Sorry, it's quite. It's quite a range of genres. Like different types of music. B I g with his rap and Michael Jackson with his kind of pop. You've built a reputation as one of the kind of MMA. Go to insiders and let's start kind of at the beginning, growing up in Netherlands, was there something about the country's rich kind of kickboxing or combat sports culture that drew you into MMA?
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah, actually. I mean, I started watching kickboxing, actually, before I knew about MMA. You know, it's like, kickboxing is more mainstream in the Netherlands. It wasn't back then either, you know, but it's a. It's more mainstream as of lately. I mean, if you ask back in the day, two people who's Raimi Bonjaski or Peter arts, you know, they probably don't know. Only if you're into the combat sports. And now raimi is pretty much known. But actually. Actually Rico Verhoeven, if you ask why, if you ask anybody's grandmother who Rico Verhoeven is, she probably knows, you know what I mean? So that's getting more mainstream. And the thing is, with kickboxing, when I started following k one was pretty big, you know, and I. Yeah, there was like a massive dvd set. I think there were 18 dvd's of all the k one tournaments, and they were on discount, so I bought them all and I started watching, and there was also an MMA fight on that card of one of the k one. And that's what intrigued me, actually, with MMA. So, yeah, I went to watch more mma from that. That kind of moment still was more into k one kickboxing at that moment. But at a certain moment, MMA took more over. And now I. I watch kickboxing here and there. But MMA has always been my, like, how do you say that? If there is anything MMA, but there's kickboxing, I watch always MMA, you know what I mean?
[00:03:48] Speaker A: So it's an interesting one because obviously kickboxing is massive in Netherlands. Why do you think we don't see more people kind of at that top level nowadays from the Netherlands and with the kickboxing style.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: With kickboxing or in MMA?
[00:04:03] Speaker A: You mean in MMA. So transitioning over, it has to do.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: With the ground game. I mean, if you look at it. Listen, we have now renewed the rhythm in the UFC. He came from one and he's actually the other way around. You know, he's really good on the ground, and his striking is, like, not as great as a lot of guys in the Netherlands. If you look at Giorno, who's also in the UFC now, Giorno is a really good guy, but he also struggles with the ground game, with the grappling, you know, and he trains a lot of grappling.
It's just like, it's for MMA. You gotta be like, really, like in. Alex Pereira is really good in kickboxing, but, and his ground game, I don't know how good his ground game is because he's not been taken down a lot of times, you know, because he's fighting a lot of strikers. I gotta have luck with that. But at the same time, remember when Joanna Yan Jacek was in the UFC? She had to dealt with, with grapplers, but her takedown defense was good nine out of ten times, you know, so she could handle, or she could implement her game plan with the striking. And the thing is like, listen, if you can do both, you are already, like very far, I think, you know, if you can do both. But I mean, most guys from here, they're really into the striking because it started all with, with kickboxing. For a lot of them, kickboxing just, you have like, I think you have, like, if you have to go to a real good wrestling school, you have to go to Amsterdam to birth cops. You know, he's like, he's like a wrestler. And a lot of, most of the guys who want to train their wrestling go to birth cups in Amsterdam. So besides that, you have some MMA gyms or where they train mma, you got like Stefan Struve, you know, who was in the UFC, he had Bob Schreiber. You can train. You can train MMA there as well. Obviously, you know, everything Stefan learned, he learned it from Bob. I remember when they asked Stefan in the US, like, what is your black, what is your belt? And he's like, what belt? I learned everything from Bob. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's totally different here. And, yeah, it's. It's. I don't know if it's really a good thing, you know, I think it's getting better, you know, but at the same time, you have like, come, like, how do you say that? Promotions who have, like, those kickboxing MMA kind of fights, you know, where they have, like, they do MMA, but you can only be at a certain, like 30 seconds on the ground or 35 seconds, then you have to be up. Well, it's not good. You know, you can, you can survive 30 seconds and then you can stand up, you can knock the guy out and you have like a seven and no record, for example. And then you go to the US and you get like an american wrestler against you and you're screwed. You know what I mean? So it's not always that good to do it like that, but there is improving. You got, now you got lfL in the Netherlands who have actually a guy, Mario Pinto on the Dino Contender series, there was their champion on that card. So you got Kate Royal slowlands, which is like, which is more amateur based, but, I mean, you get. Most guys have to start, like amateur to go to the pro. So that's all good. You know, it's a development. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's better than a couple of years ago if you look at MMA, but still a lot to improve, man. We are not at the level of, like, what's coming up now. Like, what's an upcoming, like, Australia? I think Australia is doing really well in MMA.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Spain, Georgia. Yeah, bro.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Spain has made such a big thing with Ilya, you know? I know, for example, that, like, the subscriptions for Eurosport, which are in Spain, I think they have been doubled or tripled since Ilya won the title. Wow. So, yeah, he's really big, man. I think a lot of people on the estimate how big he is, and you saw that when he was, like, when he was in the Bernabeu, know, at Real Madrid before the game, he's really big. So it's like, that's going to be a massive fight, him versus Max Holloway later this month. So, yeah, look forward to it.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I can't wait for that one. It's going to be fantastic. It's only, what, two, three weeks away in for a real treat. You didn't just become a fan of MMA, though. You've made it into a career. Was there a moment or event where you realised you wanted to take the leap from being a passionate fan to becoming a professional journalist?
[00:08:19] Speaker B: My dream when I was a kid was always to be a sports journalist, but into football or soccer, how they called in the US, people in the US watching football, that was always my dream, you know, but I left a dream go at a certain moment was like, yeah, I'm not going to get that through school, probably, you know, because I. School kind of a joker. You know what I mean? It's nothing. I'm not that serious kind of guy. A lot of people think I'm a really serious kind of guy. I'm not. Absolutely not, actually. But in my work I am. But out of that, absolutely not.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's kind of the thing. And I always wanted that. So with the thing with. At a certain moment, starting with friends, like an MMA website or MMA page, you know, it's like you can still do those kind of things, like. But it's not like you cannot make your work out of it, you know? And now, since 2022, I couldn't make my work out of it, which is great. I obviously, I love doing it, and I think I get a lot of good reviews from people about it. Listen, there are also people who are critical, which is good, man. I mean, you are never too old to learn, I guess, you know, and that's. That's for sure. But overall, most people are nice. So I think as long as people are happy with what I do, I probably do it good. I think, you know, I think you.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: Do an absolutely fantastic job.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Thanks, man.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: I wanted to speak about, because it's something slightly different compared to what I'm used to, and most people kind of start off with a big social media push. But you co founded Mma DNA, right?
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: What inspired you to start your own platform in that sense? And then how did it grow from a small project into kind of a bigger entity, should we call it?
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, man. So I got to start from the real beginning. So I was working at the mall, you know, and I walk into, like, an old classmate of me or was actually one, one year older, and he's like, we should start something with MMA, dude. I mean, you love MMA. I love MMA. Let's start a Facebook page. He's like, I was like, if you can set it up, I will help you out with it, you know? So that was MMA finest. I don't know when that was, but it's a real long. I think it was around the UFC 145, 150 somewhere there. So, yeah, we started at a certain moment. I came in contact with a guy from the Netherlands who started UFC Netherlands, which is UFC Netherland, which means UFC Netherlands. It was unofficial page. So he started that, and he has asked me, like, do you want to join me? I was like, yeah, why not? You know, and I asked the other guy, he's like, for sure, if you want, you can go. You know, it's no problem because he didn't have a lot of time anymore as well. So. So I went to there, and we were. We did pretty well. Our goal was to get UFC broadcasted on Dutch tv and to get a UFC event to the Netherlands, which happened both, you know, so that's good. We went from, I think when I. When I joined, it was like, 1520K Facebook, and then when I left was 50k. There was some problems at a certain moment with. With the. With the main guy, with the boss from that. So we. I went to MMA DNA. We started something on our own. So you got to see, like, there were, like, in that group were seven guys, and, like, four of the seven guys went to MMA DNA. We started something on our own, you know, so. And that's where it started off. We had a website, we had, like, Facebook, Instagram, whatever, you know, Twitter, and posted from there. But I also post a lot on my personal account, you know, so I saw the moment because I think it's. Because I posted also a lot about ACB and ACA, like those russian organisms, that russian organization, which is now called ACA.
I got some DM's also from fighters about it. I got DM's from managers about it for some reason, and I keep talking to them. And at a certain moment, I also got my sources, which I use for MMA DNA, which was good. Yeah, that's pretty much how it got established. And we also did kickboxing there because two of the guys at MMA DNA really love, had a love for kickboxing, and they had access to it, so they also went to kickboxing events, doing, we're talking to fighters there, interviewing and that kind of stuff. So we did pretty much a little bit of everything, you know what I mean?
And that I did till 2021, and then I went to jurisport in 2022. Yeah.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: What's. Because, like, I. You've. You've laid that story out like, it was kind of like a super simple, easy kind of journey. What, like, the realities of. Of trying to do something like that.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Yeah. You. You got to work together. Well, of course, you know, and you have to, um. You have to. How do I say that? You got to know what. What everybody's task is to do, you know, what everybody brings to the table. The other guys were better with the kickboxing stuff, which is good, you know, and I think I was better with the MMA stuff, you know, with the news. So that came together. And I think at a certain moment, not just in the Netherlands, but also, like, international, you saw MMA DNA, that name you saw more often, you know, because we had breaking news many times, and that was good, you know, and. Yeah, how we did it, it was really like a bunch of guys who love the sport, who became friends because of the other network where we own first, and we expanded that in a website and with socials. And those two guys like Stefan and Michael, they had good contact with kickboxing guys, like, also with all the kickboxing guys, like Melvin Manof, Andy Sauer, Remy Bunjaski, Ernesto Hust. So they had good contacts with them. So that was. We had better. We had good access to them. And for me, it was more the MMA kind of side, and I had also good contacts with some other guys, like more international guys. I think the Dutch. I have some good contact with the Dutch now with the most, but it's more difficult, you know, they don't give you that much news that quickly because they know if we posted it, we are a Dutch. Media people think they leaked it to us. You know what I mean? So they are not like, they rather give it probably to somebody in the US, and then it looks like the opponent leaked stuff, you know what I mean? So I can understand that. But that's what it is. But it's just like, it just came out of nowhere, pretty much, you know, it's like we were just consistent with posting and that kind of stuff. And then you get noticed, and when you get noticed and people are like, yeah, it's good what they're doing, then you get more of that. That thing rolling. You know what I mean? That's pretty much how it went. It's also out went with Twitter and X for me, you know?
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Reporting on a. On a sport that you're clearly so passionate about must be exciting, but a delicate balance.
I have it sometimes. I mean, I struggle sometimes to watch every pay per view just because it can get so intense. How do you manage to stay objective, focused while still keeping the fire alive? As an MMA fan?
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah, man, it's like, listen, I always say everybody who's watching and journalists can say they don't have, but everybody has favorite fighters, you know, it's pretty obvious, you know? And you follow the sport not because you like to see fights, but you like to see certain people fight. And that gets you into the sport pretty much, you know? I mean, I just like to watch it, you know? And it's from. For me, it's like, I always set my standards pretty low, you know? So the thing is, if you put your standards very high, a lot of things are gonna suck when you watch it, you know, because then you're like, ah, I thought this was gonna be a better car, you know, like last week. 307. 307. Let's be really honest, that car wasn't good. You know? Besides, the main event was super entertaining, you know, but still, the car wasn't good, but at least you went out with something like, wow, the main event was something, you know, but it wasn't great. And then it's like, is it a tough watch? It is sometimes, you know? But at the same time, I'm working on the Eurosport website. I'm doing socials for Eurosport. During. During. I hate that word during. The events, you know, so I'm awake, so for me, it's no problem. And I just sleep afterwards, so that's okay.
I'm also, like, on. I try to. How do you say that? I'm pretty much awake on the north american times a lot of times, so it's not that hard for me.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Your routine is lent, and the work that you do is lent yourself to keep in that routine.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: I mean, I hate the Macau times, that card. I absolutely hate it. You know that I have to wake up at 09:00 a.m.
so.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
Every journalist remembers, or I'd like to think would remember their first big break. What was yours, and do you remember the first major story you scooped and how that made you feel when the MMA world kind of took notice of it?
[00:17:27] Speaker B: First big break? That's a good question.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: There's just been too many.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: No, don't want to be like that. I don't mean that way, but it's like. Listen, we had back then the date for Whitaker Eze, the first one. We had that one, but I think it was like. I don't know if exactly. I think it was October 7, but we said October 8, and the thing was like, it was October 8 in Australia. You know what I mean? So that's why we screwed up a little bit. And we had it for Sydney, but it went to Melbourne because there was some kind of a rugby nations kind of thing, but that was supposed to go to Sydney for when it went to Melbourne. So I think I also broke RDA against Makachev. That fight, that didn't happen for a fight. That was the main event I broke. I probably had some more, but it's like, I can't remember, dude. I honestly can't remember which one was the biggest we broke. I think that the Wittekar designer one was pretty big back then when we broke it, so that was still an MMA DNA, by the way. So I think that was.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: We see breaking fight announcements and behind the scenes news all the time, but the process itself kind of remains a mystery. We're both football fans, and I always think you're my MMA Fabrizio Romano.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: And I've always. His pictures, when he's posting them, kind of showing him working. It's always him on the phone. But how does it actually. How does it actually go down? Are you actually on the phone, like, all through the night, or is it a bit more organized and strategized, mostly.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Doing with messages, Instagram, WhatsApp, DM, Twitter, you know, even emails I'm not really into.
How do you say that? Calls. Sometimes I do on the phone, but not a lot, you know, and it's just like checking and seeing if it's true or not. Sometimes you hear something and you're going to check if it's true. You still have to always be patient, you know? Sometimes, you know, something on one side confirms, but the other side don't say anything. Or they just say like, no, we didn't got it. And it's like, but I know it's true, you know, and it's like, no, no, we don't get anything. It's like, okay, cool. So then I can't do anything with it, you know, but that's pretty much what I do. And sometimes, like. Like, for example, when. When there is a fight announce, I got always, like, DM from people, like, why haven't you put that on your instagram yet? Why haven't you put that on x yet? Because I only have one site. I mean, I can post it. You know, it's probably true, but then I would pretty much copy paste somebody else's work without knowing if the other side is true. And if I only have one side. Yeah, then I would have to wait till the UFC posted officially. If I don't get it any other way. It is what it is, you know? So that's what happened last time with. What was that? What was that fight again? Was also UFC fight. I don't know which. Which one it was. And then people were like, this was out like five weeks ago. It's like, yeah, I know, but only got one side, and that other side never said anything back or, you know, what can I do? It's not the same thing with that fight with Carlos praters against Randy Brown. You know, Randy Brown says it's in December and Vegas, and Carlos Pratas says it's in New York in November. I mean, what's going to happen?
I hear from the other side it's December. The other side says it's November. So what do you want me to post? I think I got, like ten dm's from people. Why haven't you posted? Yeah, that's why I haven't posted. I don't know what's going to happen. You know, just waiting.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: With constant fight updates, changes and breaking news, the MMA world can be quite chaotic. How do you keep yourself grounded and handle the pressure when everything's moving really, really quickly around you?
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Just writing stuff down, man. And the thing is, like, I always had something with names, you know, so when I see a name one or two times, I can spell the name, I can write a name and I can remember the name. So that has always been very handy. Definitely with MMA, with some crazy names, you know, so when I see a matchup, then I know about it. And normally when I see some, some matchup somewhere, but I haven't been confirmed it myself, I just write it down where I saw it, you know, so when I post it, I can credit the person who had it first, if that's the question. Is that the answer? What you were looking for? I don't know if I answer your question there.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And I think when it's really, really busy for you and uh, you've got, I don't know, a card's semi been announced, say, if we look at like the Canada card that's coming on November 2 as an example, when you're like starting to work towards trying to get announcements for that, how do you kind of balance your kind of lifestyle for like pleasure, I guess, and also keeping on top of stuff? Is there much of a balance or is it just all go?
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Basically all go, dude. I mean, whereas there is there. And it's not, it's not, you know, sometimes you have like final announcement, maybe. Sometimes you have one in two weeks, you know, and sometimes you have like four in one day. It's like, it's super weird, man. It's never, it's, it comes where it doesn't. Sometimes it comes, sometimes doesn't. It's like, I'm happy. It doesn't depend. I'm not dependent with the fight announcement, with the euro sport, you know, because then it would be more difficult. I just have my normal task. They're like writing articles and that kind of stuff, you know, I do social media stuff, but. Yeah, with Friday announcements, sometimes you have weeks. You have so many, man. You know, for example, sometimes you have like ten in two days, you know, and then you have a week with only three. It's so weird. So, yeah, I don't know.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Speaking of articles, when I was doing my research, I looked on the Eurosports website and I saw that you. You've done, what was it? Let me just get the number right. 1692 articles for euro sports. Now that's, that's hell of a going. How do you kind of commit to that consistency?
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah, just like, we just have, like, how do you say that? Certain rules we made which we have to put out, you know? So for me, I have to write a preview for the main card for every card, you know, also, like a little bit of a teaser article, like on Friday, like a day before the event on Monday, how late it starts, where we can watch it, who does the commentary in Dutch, that kind of stuff, you know, and then you still have the articles with the big fights, or you have like main event announcement for a certain card, you have to do article. So that. And plus we have interviews here and there. You know, when it's like an important interview with. With a big name or something, they want to have that, you have to make an article about it, you know, with some clips. So that's basically what I do. And there's always something more. You know, we try to keep up with the dutch fighters as well. So when there's a dutch fighter in Bellator and Cage warriors, we write about it. We had the cage warriors broadcast rights for two years. We didn't have it this year. So there are also some articles about cage warriors, and those are preview articles on that, on that promotion. So, yeah, basically that. And like I said, it was a big fight. For example, like when for the Dutch fired us, we do separate articles, obviously. We also did separate article for Okie, the belgian guy who fought the Chris Duncan, because we've also some belgian viewers, you know, because like neighbor country, right. So, yeah, that basically, you know, and I mean, whatever comes, sometimes there's something extra. You need to adjust to that. And during the. How do you say that? With the events, we do the official weigh ins article, like, almost everybody does do a recap in Dutch where I go through all the files on the card. Basically, that's how many times I said basically during this conversation. But that's what I do when you're.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Saying, obviously, because you do cover so many different kind of events and different promotions. If you got a favorite promotion, I'm gonna guess you're gonna say the UFC. If we say not the UFC, then.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, there are a lot of promotions I really like to watch, man. My favorite promotion couple of years ago, besides the UFC, was ACa. You know, AC is kind of went harder to watch over here. The certain moment they asked for money, and it wasn't that much of a problem, but you had to, like, go to the website, and I couldn't find the link. And then I was annoyed by. And I was like, okay, whatever, and make it easier on us, you know. Now I've seen a little bit more again, you know, one championship was fun, you know, but they started to do more muay thai kickboxing. Grappling kind of stuff, and I don't mind it, you know, but I'm really into MMA. So when your product is like 5% MMA, it's like, for me, like, yeah, okay. You know, pfl. I enjoy pfl, but I still think the rules sometimes are really off, you know, it's, like, really weird when you can knock out somebody in the second, in the second fight of the regular season and then fight them in the semifinals again. Seems, like super weird, you know, I know it under. It happens because the guy can have, like, six points for the first fight, you know, so you can get to him in the semifinal again, but it's just weird. And with Bellator. Yeah, man, I wasn't a bellator rankings panelist, you know, before. Before they went co promoting or whatever, with PFL or they took over. PFL took them over. But right now, it's so difficult where to put Bellator, right? Don't you think? It's difficult to put Bellator because they are, like, under the PFL, and I think most of their champions won, actually, with the PFL versus Bellator kind of fight. So it's super odd, you know, and. Yeah, and there are some good european organizations, you know, cage, rose, you know, KSW, you know, Octagon is coming up, you know, so I. I prefer, I watch all UFC, and that's pretty much obvious because I work for Eurosports and they have to broadcast. Right. So makes the most sense. But, yeah, I also watch other promotions, but I can. I'll be honest, I kind of slowed down a couple of years ago because I was watching way too much. Way too much. And it wasn't good. Yeah.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: So I'm guessing that fight pass subscription has been well used.
Is there a particular, maybe slightly underground, maybe something more netherlands based kind of promotion that you think could make a break into becoming something more mainstream?
[00:28:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think lfl is doing well, man. I mean, lfl they. They have some homegrown talent, you know, and they also have some, like, good talents from around the world. Like I said earlier, like Mario Pinto, he's running contender series this Tuesday.
He's heavyweight champion for. Not anymore, obviously, because he left now, but he was heavyweight champion. Alain von der Merck was supposed to be on the contender series next week, but he's not signed with KSW now. He's not Usri Balgaro. We fight on the contenders here. He's one of the few guys who got to finish and not get a contract. He was also in Alex Pereira's corner this week. He is like, in the last couple of three, four fights of Alex, I still think he will be signed by the UFC, man. I'm sure if he doesn't get signed, Alex probably holds Dana by gunpoint or something. But, yeah, I mean, he will get signed eventually, I think. But, yeah, there are some good fighters and also, like, former UFC, former bellator fighters have fought there, man, in LFL. So, yeah, it's a good mix of young talent, established guys, and up and commerce, I think. So, yeah, I think that's. That's a good promotion. And that's. That's actually the. You got cage for slow lens as well, you know. But it's mostly like amateur fights. But LFL is like, they have, like, two cards, they have a pro card and they have an amateur card. The amateur card is mostly before the pro card and then the pro card starts. So, I mean, yeah, that's fine.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: In a. In a career full of kind of success and highlights, there's always, I think, for a lot of people I've spoken to, kind of one moment that stands out. What's been the most surreal or unexpected, maybe experience that you've had whilst you covered MMA?
[00:29:49] Speaker B: I really like, it's really cool when obviously, people who you like give you credit, you know, or they say, we love the work you do. You know, I had, for example, you know, the brazilian interpreter, Fabiano in the UFC. Yeah, yeah, I started following him and he dm me is like, dude, I love this work you do. So. And obviously, I love the work he does as well, so that's really cool. I had Alan Juban reaching out to me about that, that he likes the work I do. It's those kind of things, you know, actually, the guys you really like, and they do, you see on tv doing great stuff, you know, they like your work as well, you know, and that's always cool when somebody. Or when even when managers are saying like, dude, you do the right thing, you know how you do it. We really like what you're doing and your work is valued, so that's cool. You know, that's. That's why where I think like, that. That's awesome. You know, when people saying, like, yeah. Or like, Terrence McKinney said yesterday, like, if. If it's not on big Marcel's page, then, you know, then it's probably not true. That's cool, man. You know, I'm not gonna be, like, retweeting that stuff. Like, oh, look at me. Look what he says about me, you know, but I see that I see the tweet and it's cool to read, obviously. So, yeah.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I think I'd be the opposite. I couldn't help it if I was getting all those. I'd be, whoa, completely overwhelmed by it. All leads well to my next question, actually, journalists, I think in general, especially when we see them at events and things like that, they walk a fine line when it comes to relationships with fighters. How do you or how have you built rapport with fighters while maintaining a professional distance? And has it ever been a challenge for you as well?
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Honestly, that's difficult, man, because like I always said, I see myself as a reporter. My title is freelance journalism for your sport. I see myself as a reporter, but I have to stay unbiased, you know what I mean? So I cannot, like, cheer for the one guy or another. I would not, you will never see me post something on Twitter like, let's go Powhatan. What's up? Great. You know, I would say like when, when, for example, when Marab won, like, congrats to Marab. Great fight. You know, for something like that doesn't mean that I, that I'm a fan. I like rob a lot, you know, but it's not like that. I try to put him up and I O'Malley down. It's not the truth, you know, but that's difficult, you know, because at a certain moment when you.
I also do picks predictions for a preview show for Adam Martin on that males breaker channel. So last time I had one fighter after he fought and won, he's actually fighting this weekend. Who fought and won? He dm'd me. He's like, I beat your boy. I was like, what do you mean you beat my boy? You know? He's like, yeah, I saw what you said on the, on the, on the previous show, I was like, dude, I just have to give a pick. Does it mean that I don't want you to win? You know, I just thought this was gonna happen. He's like, yeah, you saw it wasn't gonna happen. It's like, yeah, good. It's like, congratulations, you know, but that happens, you know? What do you want? You know, I get, I gotta give my picks. It's just the way it is, you know, and I always pick what think will win, not who I want to win, you know, so that's also a thing. But, yeah, sometimes it's difficult, you know, because fighters can take it personally if you don't pick them for some reason, which, it's nothing personal to me, I just think, listen, if you get I give you a fight, you say who you think is going to win doesn't have to mean that you want that person to win. You know, it's just what you think.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: So taking the journalist hat off just for a second, currently at this moment in time, who would you say is your favorite fighter and why?
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Favorite fighter? I don't have one. I have multiple guys I really like, you know, so I don't have one. Mandev. I've been really on the Ilia Tapuria hype train since he's been before and before he was in the UFC. I tell you a story. Why? You know, I was at the local event. Not local, it was actual cage warriors, but it was in Belgium, you know, the main event was Brian Bullon from Belgium against Ilya Topuria. And Ilya Topuria was obviously undefeated, and he had only submission wins on his name, I think. And he was fighting out of alicante, Spain. So I was looking at, and it's like, did they get this guy to get Bullock a title? You know, like they found an undefeated guy somewhere in Europe. I didn't know Ilya back then to fight Brian Bullough in front of his home crowd and get the title. So then the weigh in was Ilya was too heavy, so he couldn't win the title, you know, was at 135. So they fought, and I think he tapped him and he didn't even tap them. He finished him within 1 minute, 20 seconds by anaconda, you know, and everybody was like, what the hell is happening here? You know, and it was flawless. And since that moment. And then he went to brave, he never fought in cage wars. I think jack Shore was the champion, back or no, jack Shore was the top contender back then. And also Jack Shore got interviewed afterwards and they were like, do you fight Tapuria? And he was like, yeah, but he can make weight, you know. So Topuria never fought for cage wars after that. Again, he went to brave and he won there. Then he came to the UFC. I fought Yousuf Salal on short notice, and we know where he is now. He's a champion now. So I've been high on Ilya Topuria for a long time. I remember when he was fighting Bryce Mitchell, a lot of people were like, odds, okay, with Ilya being the favourite. I was like, yeah, man, I'm fully convinced Ilya is going to win this fight. A lot of people won. Bryce Mitchell and Ilya won that fight. So he's just really good. Does he win against Max? We'll see. I don't know. I'm not going to give my pick yet. I will think about it a little bit more, but he's a guy I'm really high on. I give you one, man. I could give you more, but Ilya is a guy I'm really high on.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: That's great. And I love that story as well from seeing Ilya join the UFC. Then you were saying previously, and I don't know that much, before UFC, you were saying he was getting a lot of submission wins, but since he's joined the UFC, he's getting a lot of knockouts, tkos. Why do you think that that's been so different with the higher level of opponent?
[00:36:08] Speaker B: I think he just developed as a mixed martial artist. You know, he was like more of a ground guy, a BJJ guy before, and he just developed and he got heavy hands. You know, I think that that's just being a part of being development because he's still only 27 or something. You know, he's super young still, so.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I think.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Why with so much fight news flying around and with. I mean, you've kind of alluded to the commitment to this role that you have. I'm sure you've also had your fair share of. Should we call it chaos? What's the craziest or most unexpected fight announcement or cancellation that you've had to report?
[00:36:45] Speaker B: Oh, dude, don't you know me and the Paddy story?
[00:36:49] Speaker A: I may have heard this in my research, and I was hoping, okay, well.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: That'S the craziest now. Well, I got told from, obviously, the other side that Paddy was out and that Van Romini was gonna fight Cameron. Van camped. But at that moment, I couldn't bring Cameron from Camo because I haven't checked it with Cameron. So I asked the other side. That's like, can I say that Luigi's gonna fight somebody else but not the opponent? Yeah, yeah, of course. So I did. But at that moment, for me, Paddy was out. So I didn't even think like, oh, let's. Let's bother Paddy with this shit. You know, he's out. He's probably annoyed already by it. So I posted it, and Paddy went crazy on Twitter. Like, yeah, I'm not out. What are you talking about?
It's like, okay, you know, maybe. So I went back to my source. I was like, he's like, yeah, maybe Patti doesn't know yet or something. I don't know. But it's legit. Like, we got, like, two days ago, we got the total ready from the UFC. You know, I got it on my email. So it's like, okay, then actually, a teammate of Andromina mini reached out to me. He's like, dude, Luigi's already three, two, three days training for fancamp. Paddy is out. Like, okay. Then Guillermo Cruz from MMA fighting also reporting that Paddy is out and Paddy is still denying it, you know? So then I get. Get the message from the guy who initially told me, and he's like, there's some crazy shit. That's like, what's up? Yeah, well, got her told by the UFC that they put Paddy in back. It's like, what the hell? Is that even possible? He's like, yeah, he had some problem with. How do you say that? With the customs or whatever, you know, with the visa and. But they can do, like, a quick interview or whatever, and they can still get him in, so, okay, great, now I'm screwed, you know, because I put that out. And then the guy says, like, you, you just post whatever and I'll retweet. And I say, this was legit. When I gave it to you. It's like, okay, let's do it. Paddy was still upset that I. That I didn't want it to delete the initial tweet that I put out. You know, that's like, if I delete it, then it looks like I acted like I posted something that was not true. But at that moment, it was. It just, you know, everything goes fast in MMA world. Like you just said, you know, and something happened. So obviously the fight happened. Paddy went on a rant for, like, 48 hours to me. I even apologized, you know, and he kept going for a rant until another journalist came up with an old clip of his. Then he stopped. He was like, I'm done with Twitter. I'm going, so I don't want to talk anymore. But, yeah, that was actually the craziest that happened. And, yeah, I mean, listen, did. I had to reach out to Patty. You can say, I should have maybe, you know, at the same time, for me, it was like I wanted to commit to the Van Romini van campfire at that moment, you know? So, for me, when they said Paddy was off, paddy was off, you know, but apparently he was back in. So what can you do, man?
[00:39:49] Speaker A: It's almost like he saw what you wrote and thought, actually, no, I want the fight again, just to prove him wrong. I like to, in this podcast, kind of put a segment in about people that are aspiring to be journalists, content creators, or whatever it is they want to be from their passion for the next generation of MMA journalists looking up to kind of like, what you do, what advice would you give them about start standing out and succeeding in this really competitive industry?
[00:40:18] Speaker B: A, be consistent. B, don't be fanboying. C be serious and focus on a certain thing you want to do. You know, don't be all over the place like you have people like, oh, I want to do funny stuff in MMA, and then you want to be serious, and then that doesn't work. You know, you cannot, like, doing, like, let's put a funny clip together from. From Powhatan against Jamal Hill, you know, like. Like a fun added where he does that, you know, that signature thing, and then making fun of that, and then do a serious fight announcement or do a serious interview with Jamal Hill. That doesn't make sense. You know, do one of the other things. So also, what? I know a lot of people do that, but listen, when I was not in media, I didn't. I also did it, you know, but now I try not to do it. Making pictures with fighters, you can do it, you know, I'm not saying anything about it, but I know that, like, the more established journalists who are there at the events, if they see it, don't take you serious. And if the UFC sees this, you're screwed, you know, because if they see it, they probably take away your.
Your media pass. Unless you're a content creator, they probably don't give a shit, you know? But if you're a journalist, they do. So. And bb don't. How do you say that? Yeah, I don't know if you saw it recently, man, with. With Matt Favola on Twitter. That was a french outlet. I forgot their name for that. Didn't reply to them or whatever, you know, and then they talked shit to them, to him when he was fighting for a CMD. That's like, yeah, you can do that. You know, even if it's for fun or whatever, but that just doesn't look good on you. And they're like, yeah, but fires is from our country. You have to back him. No, you don't have to. You can back him, but can do that in a different way. You know? So, yeah, I mean, if Raineel, for example, fights Gerald merchant.
I like Gerald a lot, you know, so I'm not going to cheer online that if renier wins, that Gerald loses or whatever, you know, because I like Gerald a lot, too. You know, it's just for. For the Netherlands. It would be greater for Neil Wynn. We can use that within the UFC, I mean, I think Giorno had against Stephen Wynn, he had the last win in, like, four years for a dutch fighter in the UFC. So we can use that win. But at the same time, I wish Gerald all the best, and he's always been cool to me, so why would I be against him? Because he didn't get born here. Where I'm from. That doesn't make sense to me, you know? So just be like. Just be cool to people. People will be cool back to you. I think that's always my. My thing. If you're nice to me, I'm nice to you. If you were a punk to me, I'm pretty much more of a punk to you. So, yeah, that's basically how it is.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: You know, I won't be a punk. Don't worry.
From the experience that you've gained from doing this, and I quite. This is one of my favorite questions. If you could sit down with yourself when you first started this hobby that's transcended into a career, what would you tell that individual in terms of maybe something you do differently or just maybe leaving a bit of advice?
[00:43:30] Speaker B: I tell the person that it takes a lot of time.
It's, like, a lot of hours and a lot of hours you won't get back, you know? But at the end of the day, I've been worried because I couldn't make it my job, you know what I mean? So it was worth it. And what would I tell myself? I would tell myself to do better in school, so I would have. Would have been maybe a better path to it, you know? But, yeah, listen, man, I'm happy with the way it went, you know? But at the same time, I feel like it could have been better if I maybe did better at school. I maybe did more my. What wasn't a little bit more serious, you know? But with this thing, I've always been pretty serious, so I'm okay with the way it went, but I want to keep doing this. So, yeah, that's more the thing. Like, how can I keep doing this? How can I keep going, let this keep. Let the ball rolling, you know what I mean? So that's more what I'm concerned by. But you just got to start and you got to believe. You got to make sure you're legit, what you're in, what you're doing, and that you're trustworthy. That's the most. That's the most important thing. People got to trust you in what you do. You know? If you just put out something, and it's not true. Listen, it can happen one time. Everybody can be wrong one time, you know, but try to not make it happen. You know? I always say, like, try to be right instead of being first. You know? Being first is fun, but you have to be 100% right if you have to be first. Don't be like, I want to be first. But, yeah, am I right? 60% maybe, you know, you want to be at least 99%, you know?
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Okay. I like that. One thing that really fascinates me, particularly the UFC, is seeing how it's kind of ridden that media, social media wave so well to the point where I think I was looking the other day, and it's got more followers on Instagram than the NFL.
Have you seen the way that fighters approach the media evolve whilst you've been doing this? And do you think the relationship between fighters and journalists has shifted due to that? And if so, how?
[00:45:37] Speaker B: I think there's pro. The problem. If there is a problem these days, there's a difference between journalism and content creating. You know what I mean? Content creating is a little bit more free. You can joke around with the fighter. You can be like, Nina drama, you know, asking odd stuff, and they're gonna laugh about, and it's good. Listen, I can't go to a female rapport or female fighter and ask her, like, what's your body count, for example? I don't want to ask that, you know, but you know what I mean? It's, like, totally different, so. And that's the thing. A lot of people don't understand the difference between a content creator and a journalist. You know, it's like. And that's also when people say, like, oh, ina guru, what else do we have? They have all more fun interviews or questions to fighters than the actual journalist. The journalist has to have to keep a certain way of asking to the fighter. They cannot go all out, you know, like. Like that. They have to keep it to the sport. They can ask about personal life, obviously, you know, but it's still a little bit of, like, a gray area, what you can ask and what you can't ask, you know? So it cannot always be. Be, like, loose and fun. It sometimes has to be a little bit more critical, but sometimes they go a little bit over the top with the journalists, you know, then they're just annoying and then annoyed. Then I understand that certain fighters are annoyed by it, you know? But, yeah, I always try to.
How do you say that? When I do interviews or when I approach writers, I always try to keep it, like, casual, but not too much. I have maybe two or three guys I'm really good with, you know, I would. I would say they are. They are friends of mine. They would say the same about me, so I can screw around with them, you know, even when they have, like, when they lose a fight, I'm like, dude, you look like shit. I'm just saying for fun, you know, I didn't know. I say fun and I just get a middle finger back from them, so. With a smiley. But normally when, when I'm not really too close to a fighter, but I talk to him often and that person loses or wins, I just say, great job, well done, great win, you know, but I do by DM, you know, or if he loses and he's done, I was like, come on, dude. Next time you will be, will be good again, you know, keep believing. So I always try to keep it nice to fighters and clean, you know, and I think they appreciated that overall because I think if, like, the fighters who know me, I didn't think a lot, but the fighters who know me, you know, they, they will say, like, he's, he's okay, you know, we don't mind him or whatever, but you got to make, you got to make sure that you're not, like I said, I've got two or three guys. I'm really good. So I consider them my friends, but I don't want to be. And not that I don't want to be friendly or whatever, but don't be too close to certain fighters because you're going to get biased. You know what it is that that's not good. For example, I did also give my scores for MMA decisions back in the day, like two or three years ago for two or three fighters. I never gave my scores because I consider them my friends, you know, so I'm not going to score the fight. Even I can be not biased. I just don't do it. You know what I mean?
[00:48:47] Speaker A: Because if you scored it for them and it was potentially arguable, should we call it, then people could see you as being biased.
[00:48:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, it's like a 50 50 fight, which could either go either way, you know, and you scored at 29, you scored at around ten nine for that fighter. Well, like 75% of people would think the other fighter should get a ten nine. And people know about, you talk to that fighter a lot. You know, they're like, yeah, of course you score for them. You got to get that out of the way. You know, I mean, I don't need that, and I don't think that's necessary, even when I'm, I'm not biased when I'm scoring.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: So last question. Yeah, we'll make it a fun one.
If you could put together a dream fight, any fighters from any era, who would you love to see go to head? Head to head. And why?
[00:49:36] Speaker B: I'm not going to say Ernesto GSB, because everybody says it all the time. Let's put, like, prime Jon Jones against Prime Fedor. Okay, let's do that for heavyweight. And then I want to have, like, the Jon Jones from the light heavyweight era where he was at his prime, at heavyweight against Fedor in his prime when he was like ten years undefeated in the pride time, you know, I would pay money to see that fight, you know. So, yeah, a lot of people also say fade or Brock Lesnar, but I'm not too intrigued by that one. I'm more intrigued by it. Fader against Jones, for example, you say I could put every fighter. So, yeah, that's probably it, you know, and, man, yeah, you asked just for one. We keep it better with that one. That's.
[00:50:21] Speaker A: No, we could do more. That was great. That's great. I love, I love your intelligence and knowledge as well on this stuff.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe, man, I really wanted to see Sabit fight for a title, dude. I'd rather wait. Sabit, mango, maturity.
But he never went there, so that's. I cannot call that really like a super fight. Everybody wants to see probably. You know what I wanted to see back, back in the day? I wanted to see Georgia Aldo fighting at lightweight. That's what I wanted to see. And he got the offer, actually, from the UFC to fight Anthony Pettis, but they wanted him to relinquish his featherweight belt. And he said, like, I will go to lightweight, but I'm not going to give away my featherweight belt. And then they didn't let him go to lightweight, which Connor was supposed he did. They let him do that. You know, they had no problem with doing let him doing that. But Jose wasn't able to do it, so I would have loved to see that. Maybe he would have got it like a double championship back then, you know? Although Pettis was pretty good at that moment. I was surprised back then when he lost to RDA, you know, he was dominant.
[00:51:29] Speaker A: I.
Yeah, yeah, I think people forget it. And unfortunately for him, the whole Connor thing just kind of eclipsed his career for most people that then became fans because of Connor, which is a large percentage of casual fan base that's a.
[00:51:45] Speaker B: Problem, man, you know, and it's, to me, it's like, listen, yeah, I've been, like, unfortunate that I've been watching for a much longer time already, you know, so I've also seen Aldo in the WEC, for example. But for me, Aldo is an absolute legend, you know, and in my opinion, and I know a lot of people are annoyed when I say that. Still, for me, the featherweight goat, you know, and that's, you can. People will say, but he lost to Holloway, he lost to Volkanovski, he lost to Connor. I know, but what he did in the area in the era when he was on the, on top, nobody did that. He had the most title defenses still, you know what I mean? So that's how I look at it. So I always, when people counter me there with that, I always say, do you think Chris Weidman is better than Anderson Silva? You know, and they're like, no. I was like, he got two wins against Anderson, you know, so that's always my counter when people say, Jose Aldo is not there. But listen, if they say Alexander Volkanovski, I'm good with that as well, you know, because Alexander was close, you know, for me, Alexander was two, Max is three, you know, and. But they're all great. So I have nothing. And for me, title defenses are really important in a legacy, you know, so Connor fans will hate me for this, but, because, you know, he doesn't have title defense. But for me, it's just like, the thing is, it's so hard. I think if you're a champion, to keep defending that belt because you have something to lose in the fight, when you're a challenger nine out of ten times, you have nothing to lose. Unless the UFC doesn't give, doesn't like you, and you get maybe one chance. Like, for example, Bilal against Leon Edwards. He had everything to lose because we know if he didn't get the win there, UFC wasn't going to give him a second title shot. So good for him. He got to win. But obviously, that's one of these times when the challenger actually has a lot to lose there. But normally, like Khalil, round three last weekend against Powhatan, I think he did great in the first and second rounds. He gave him a very good fight, but at the same time, I don't think he had much to lose. He was a number eight on the rankings. Nobody expected him to be there. I like, I think 95%, 90% of the people thought he was going to lose. You know, probably he had a puncture chance I always thought he had, but at the same time, I picked Powhatan as well. So, yeah, that's basically how I see it. You know, I think as a champion, it's super difficult to keep getting to that next level to keep defending your belt because you saw also the sort of moment with Jon Jones. You know, a lot of people talk crap on Jon Jones's last title defenses against Anthony Spitze, Thiago Santos, Dominic Reyes, I agree, wasn't looking good. But you got to take in mind how many times he had already defended the title. He's been super dominant at light heavyweights, you know, and I'm not. Dana White was going to be like Jon Jones. I don't mean that, you know, but I give the guy respect, you know, and that he didn't look great in those light heavyweight title defenses. I think he was really, like, almost bored, like, here's the next one. Here's the next one. He didn't see the challenge. Now he's at heavyweight. Maybe he sees the challenge again. You know, he got. He made quick work of serial gun.
Let's see what's next. What he does, does against Miocic, I think he wins and he retires, just like Miosi also does. That's what I think. And then Tommy Aspinall finally gets that, the unified belt given to him. I think he earned it.
He gets it after Jones retires, but I think he earns it. Yeah, it's just like, it's so weird, man, when you have an interim champion, but he doesn't fight the champion for the belt. It's so weird.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess the loyalty that Jon Jones has shown and the time he spent with the UFC, he kind of deserves it. But I, for quite a long time, have always been very, very anal about the fact that they're not getting him to fight Tom. I just. I genuinely. I think at this stage in. In Jon Jones career, I do think Tom beats him. And that's not me playing down or condescending the career of Jon Jones. I don't think that's possible.
He's that good.
I don't know if we'll see that emulated for the next 1015 years and someone that young to do it for that long, but I'd just like Tom to go out. But I will say I think Tom's done really well on the media side and has probably got a lot from it, even though the fight's not happened.
[00:56:05] Speaker B: I understand why so many people hating on Tom, you know, I mean, he's the interim champion. I understand him fully. He defended the belt, you know, and he wants to fight for a title. It's not that crazy that he is. Like, why? Why do I have to wait? And I think Jones Aspinall's way more intriguing than Jones Miocic. And that's. No, that's not hitting on Miocic, but Miocic is. It's getting up in age. Hasn't fought for a long time, hasn't got a win anymore against any ranked UFC heavyweight at this moment, you know. So, lesson for Stipe, he's been the most successful champion, heavyweight champion in UFC history, if you go by the numbers. So all props to him. And I like him as well, a lot. You know, he's a really, really good dude. But I'm also really somebody who likes more into sports kind of thing and competitiveness, you know, so I want to see Jon Jones against Aspinall as well. Don't think it will happen, but I think that's. That's the fight, actually, to make. And I understand that Dana comes from. How do you say that? From a promoter's kind of view? Like the goat, in his opinion. The goat against the goat at heavyweight, in his opinion, you know, but I think that fight would have made more sense five years ago, you know, and then Jones was doing something else at that moment. And then we had DC actually taking on miocic, you know, and that had to be actually the place where DC was back then was supposed to be Jones. If you look back at it, you know, but DC did it back then and now. Yeah, we still get it. I hope it happens, you know, I hope it happens next month, because if it again gets cancelled or it gets, like, rescheduled, that would be so stupid. I hope it happens.
[00:57:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Tom's backup, isn't he? I think. Is that right?
[00:57:48] Speaker B: Yeah. It's even disrespectful, I think. But he asked himself for it, I think. But for him to be back up in that fight, I mean, what's going to happen? Imagine Jones pulls out. Do we really going to see aspinall fighting miocic?
I don't think so. So I don't know.
[00:58:02] Speaker A: Well, we'll see. I look forward to that fight coming out now and then I'll clip some of this up and we can. Marcel, I want to say a massive thank you, particularly for being patient with me whilst we experience some technical difficulties. Maybe one day when I'm on a podcast and someone asked me, what's your most stressful experience, and I can go more into detail about what happened today, but, yeah. Thank you very much.
[00:58:25] Speaker B: No problem, man.
It was fun to be here, man. Thank you for inviting me.
